PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[winner69]

Latest news / update

David in a jacket and tie looks very smart

Chairman looks a bit casual but a neat looking shirt though .....maybe from 3 Wise Men

Anything exciting in the words ...looked like too many for me to get stuck into

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/316925/277893.pdf

[BigBob]

Latest news / update

David in a jacket and tie looks very smart

Chairman looks a bit casual but a neat looking shirt though .....maybe from 3 Wise Men

Anything exciting in the words ...looked like too many for me to get stuck into

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/316925/277893.pdf

"Transformational" is used a few times - as is the term "longer than expected", mostly when it talks about time and progress...

[drcjp]

CEO claims 4-5 yrs for an LCD is the norm. I find this hard to believe. This needs to be researched and directly challenged imho.
If true, it means PEB will not get any LCD until 2020 at earliest.

[When the bass drops]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/316925/277893.pdf

Nothing materially different to previous updates of the last 2 years. It is however good to see Kaiser staff are being trained to hit the ground running when something is signed.

The Kaiser signing is massive for PEB, but not to Kaiser. It effectively represents a small rounding bucket on the Kaiser performance page. I trust PEB will up their commercial grunt, raise market awareness more effectively, and get more aggressive in negotiation.

[Balance]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/316925/277893.pdf

Nothing materially different to previous updates of the last 2 years. It is however good to see Kaiser staff are being trained to hit the ground running when something is signed.

The Kaiser signing is massive for PEB, but not to Kaiser. It effectively represents a small rounding bucket on the Kaiser performance page. I trust PEB will up their commercial grunt, raise market awareness more effectively, and get more aggressive in negotiation.

Thanks for providing me with the best laugh this morning !

[Schrodinger]

"Over the last couple of years, the proof of performance and clinical utilityhurdles have increased requiring significant investment of time andresources before enterprises will change their clinical practices and adopt anew medical device. In addition, the time required to navigate thecomplexity of the USA reimbursement process when bringing disruptiveproducts to market has been significant. However, we are making goodprogress."

They knew this would be the case and us amateurs were also just smart enough to know this - so why are they on the board and being paid when we told them for free?

I come back to 10,000+ test and $100M+ and called BS very early. Sub $0.20c share if Im generous.

Amateur company at best.

[When the bass drops]

Maybe I should be a comedian Balance. My assertions about PEB are top-level Bill Burr-esque humour. ;)

[Balance]

Maybe I should be a comedian Balance. My assertions about PEB are top-level Bill Burr-esque humour. ;)

Ah, the comedian Bill Burr. PEB certainly has the same cult like following amongst its remaining shareholders and followers who readily and fully embrace whatever the company tells them!

[Balance]

"Transformational" is used a few times - as is the term "longer than expected", mostly when it talks about time and progress...

https://stocknessmonster.com/announcements/peb.nzx-280365/

Update almost exactly the same as the one in April 2016!

April 2018 - On CMS - "We are well down the track."

April 2017 - On CMS - "Pleasingly, we are well down the track on this!"

April 2016 - On CMS - "Pleasingly, we are well down the track on this process!"

But wait, there's more!

There is this in November 2015 (2015) - On CMS - "We are progressing well in our discussions ..."

Goodness forbid if PEB ever state that they have hit a snag in their progress in anything!

[Lorne Ranger]

https://stocknessmonster.com/announcements/peb.nzx-280365/

Update almost exactly the same as the one in April 2016!

April 2018 - On CMS - "We are well down the track."

April 2017 - On CMS - "Pleasingly, we are well down the track on this!"

April 2016 - On CMS - "Pleasingly, we are well down the track on this process!"

But wait, there's more!

There is this in November 2015 (2015) - On CMS - "We are progressing well in our discussions ..."

Goodness forbid if PEB ever state that they have hit a snag in their progress in anything!

Im a great believer in the looooooooooooong game. But.... wow. At some stage you have to wonder.

[Dentie]

Been away from this thread for many months - due mainly to the continual bitching, relentless criticism, negativity and tall poppy syndrome comments from those who think they know it all....as if the comments are somehow meant to shame the PEB Board/Management into making things happen. The main offenders appear to be, of course, those who are "under water" because they didn't know it all - after all! So, this is their way of getting their own back on the market. I see nothing's changed.

One of the things you gain from taking the time to attend AGM and Update meetings is not only watching the body language of those present, but you get to ask some REAL questions and, if you're lucky, you may also get to learn some meaningful titbits while you quietly slurp a bit of Merlot and swallow the occasional prawn on a skewer.

What impressed me this time is the Chairman and the CEO openly stated they underestimated just how long it would take to get the full sign off from likes of CMS and KP. This was a breath of fresh air for me - there is nothing wrong with being upfront and honest about past failures.

But they were equally adamant that PEB were "7 years ahead" of any rival competitor and the CxBladder suite of products were right at the forefront of cutting edge medical technology. They were also adamant PEB had done (& continued to do) everything that was expected of them (& could do no more) in respect to meeting their obligations and it was solely a matter of waiting for KP and CMS to finish their internal processes. They were totally focussed on getting the US market over the line and sounded very positive this was the correct strategy.

There was no fudging on the subject of cash either. Chris stated they had enough for the next 12 months ($20m in the bank) and they were acutely aware how the "NZ" market would view things if they had to go back for more. He hinted overseas money might be attractive if necessary.

You can post your woes on here, but there seems to be no doubt, PEB has world class products and are controlling everything they can control. But until KP and CMS goes through their processes and navigates the sloth like red tape and bureaucracy - there is nothing PEB can do.

There was another titbit I learned from someone who will remain nameless but, in fairness to them and the success of PEB, I will keep that close for now.

Yep...enjoyed my trip to the big smoke.

(Oooopps - almost forgot to mention that you may be pleased to learn everyone, from the Chairman down, travels "economy" class).

[Balance]

What impressed me this time is the Chairman and the CEO openly stated they underestimated just how long it would take to get the full sign off from likes of CMS and KP. This was a breath of fresh air for me - there is nothing wrong with being upfront and honest about past failures.

But they were equally adamant that PEB were "7 years ahead" of any rival competitor and the CxBladder suite of products were right at the forefront of cutting edge medical technology. They were also adamant PEB had done (& continued to do) everything that was expected of them (& could do no more) in respect to meeting their obligations and it was solely a matter of waiting for KP and CMS to finish their internal processes. They were totally focussed on getting the US market over the line and sounded very positive this was the correct strategy.

There was no fudging on the subject of cash either. Chris stated they had enough for the next 12 months ($20m in the bank) and they were acutely aware how the "NZ" market would view things if they had to go back for more. He hinted overseas money might be attractive if necessary.

You can post your woes on here, but there seems to be no doubt, PEB has world class products and are controlling everything they can control. But until KP and CMS goes through their processes and navigates the sloth like red tape and bureaucracy - there is nothing PEB can do.

There was another titbit I learned from someone who will remain nameless but, in fairness to them and the success of PEB, I will keep that close for now.



Haha - what else can the Chairman and CEO say? They have achieved bugger all to say otherwise!

Empty words and empty deeds - they have failed at achieving milestones, deadlines, expectations and forecasts after spending the tens of millions of dollars obtained (after promising plenty) from shareholders and investors!

If PEB's products are indeed and truly 7 years ahead of their competitors, the existing management are obviously the wrong people to implement the commercialization program for the company then.

Share price tells you that their underwriters have run out of patience - imagine the company's fortunes now hang on CMS and KP! What happened to everything else? Based on the company's assertions to date of the other 'successes' they have had, having CMS and KP on board will mean bugger all anyway.

There is everything wrong with admitting past mistakes when the company has steadfastly misled the market about real progress YEAR after YEAR - refer #16282.

Spare us the body language - show us the 'several tens of thousands' of tests or put some money back into the company by buying shares on the market.

[barney]

Been away from this thread for many months - due mainly to the continual bitching, relentless criticism, negativity and tall poppy syndrome comments from those who think they know it all....as if the comments are somehow meant to shame the PEB Board/Management into making things happen. The main offenders appear to be, of course, those who are "under water" because they didn't know it all - after all! So, this is their way of getting their own back on the market. I see nothing's changed.

One of the things you gain from taking the time to attend AGM and Update meetings is not only watching the body language of those present, but you get to ask some REAL questions and, if you're lucky, you may also get to learn some meaningful titbits while you quietly slurp a bit of Merlot and swallow the occasional prawn on a skewer.

What impressed me this time is the Chairman and the CEO openly stated they underestimated just how long it would take to get the full sign off from likes of CMS and KP. This was a breath of fresh air for me - there is nothing wrong with being upfront and honest about past failures.

But they were equally adamant that PEB were "7 years ahead" of any rival competitor and the CxBladder suite of products were right at the forefront of cutting edge medical technology. They were also adamant PEB had done (& continued to do) everything that was expected of them (& could do no more) in respect to meeting their obligations and it was solely a matter of waiting for KP and CMS to finish their internal processes. They were totally focussed on getting the US market over the line and sounded very positive this was the correct strategy.

There was no fudging on the subject of cash either. Chris stated they had enough for the next 12 months ($20m in the bank) and they were acutely aware how the "NZ" market would view things if they had to go back for more. He hinted overseas money might be attractive if necessary.

You can post your woes on here, but there seems to be no doubt, PEB has world class products and are controlling everything they can control. But until KP and CMS goes through their processes and navigates the sloth like red tape and bureaucracy - there is nothing PEB can do.

There was another titbit I learned from someone who will remain nameless but, in fairness to them and the success of PEB, I will keep that close for now.

Yep...enjoyed my trip to the big smoke.

(Oooopps - almost forgot to mention that you may be pleased to learn everyone, from the Chairman down, travels "economy" class).

Thanks Dentie.
It's good to have some feedback from someone who actually attended.
Like you and many others I have stopped posting for the same reasons. I suppose it's difficult for people who have lost a bag load of money due to poor decision making to let it go.

[Balance]

Thanks Dentie.
It's good to have some feedback from someone who actually attended.
Like you and many others I have stopped posting for the same reasons. I suppose it's difficult for people who have lost a bag load of money due to poor decision making to let it go.

Haha - the ones who have lost a bagload of money are those holding. Ask Harbour, Devon, Salt and the other big holders.

Share price back to where it was in September 2012 - 5.5 years of going backwards.

Rights issues and capital raisings :

Oct 2013 - 55c

May 2015 - 61c

Feb 2017 - 50c

Oct 2017 - 32c

The ones who saw the company and management for who they are (incompetent, misleading and consistently wrong) sold and if they choose, can buy the shares sold back at current level (if there is any future at all) after saving themselves a whole heap of losses and grief.

[winner69]

Haha - the ones who have lost a bagload of money are those holding. Ask Harbour, Devon, Salt and the other big holders.

Share price back to where it was in September 2012 - 5.5 years of going backwards.

Rights issues and capital raisings :

Oct 2013 - 55c

May 2015 - 61c

Feb 2017 - 50c

Oct 2017 - 32c

The ones who saw the company and management for who they are (incompetent, misleading and consistently wrong) sold and if they choose, can buy the shares sold back at current level (if there is any future at all) after saving themselves a whole heap of losses and grief.

Made heaps on PEB over the years ......waiting for another day

I loved that 55c (or was it the 61 cent) capital raise ....share price was about $1.20 at the time

Only sad thing was that the 15 grand cash I gave them probably went towards Swannies fees or another David trip and not towards new research.

I still feel I own a bit of them ....after all I pumped real money into the company

[Balance]

Made heaps on PEB over the years ......waiting for another day

I loved that 55c (or was it the 61 cent) capital raise ....share price was about $1.20 at the time

Only sad thing was that the 15 grand cash I gave them probably went towards Swannies fees or another David trip and not towards new research.

I still feel I own a bit of them ....after all I pumped real money into the company

You and I two, W69.

Many of the directors and management of this company did not not even support the rights issue and capital raising while urging other shareholders to fork out yet more monies for them to burn - that 's the biggest red flag one could ever encounter in any company!

New deck, anyone?

[Dentie]

You and I two, W69.

Many of the directors and management of this company did not not even support the rights issue and capital raising while urging other shareholders to fork out yet more monies for them to burn - that 's the biggest red flag one could ever encounter in any company!

New deck, anyone?

Oh yeah Balance - thanks for reminding me...

One of the attendees asked that question of the Chairman. Mr Gallagher & Mr Levison advised they were both currently still "on the inside" (whatever that means) so apparently they are not yet allowed to own/buy shares (maybe you can explain that better for us Balance??) but both also indicated they would be purchasing once they were allowed to.

As for Mr Darling and Mr Masfen - they are both still part of the top ten shareholders....and they are not selling.

As for your previous post - why you no risten? You still don't seem to get it....or don't want to!

All I can read from your posts is that you lost some dosh on your previous buying decision and you seem to be on some sort of personal crusade to bury the company and make 'em pay! I mean, how dare they right? At least W69's posts seem balanced (no pun intended :ohmy:).

[Balance]

Oh yeah Balance - thanks for reminding me...

One of the attendees asked that question of the Chairman. Mr Gallagher & Mr Levison advised they were both currently still "on the inside" (whatever that means) so apparently they are not yet allowed to own/buy shares (maybe you can explain that better for us Balance??) but both also indicated they would be purchasing once they were allowed to.

As for Mr Darling and Mr Masfen - they are both still part of the top ten shareholders....and they are not selling.

As for your previous post - why you no risten? You still don't seem to get it....or don't want to!

All I can read from your posts is that you lost some dosh on your previous buying decision and you seem to be on some sort of personal crusade to bury the company and make 'em pay! I mean, how dare they right? At least W69's posts seem balanced (no pun intended :ohmy:).

On the inside - refers to the exclusion period leading to and after balance and reporting dates when insiders are not allowed to buy or sell shares. PEB has a balance date of 31 March so until the company reports, it is true that they are on the inside.

Mr Gallagher and Mr Levison has had plenty of time to invest since they were appointed as directors in 2016 - enough said.

Mr Darling and Mr Masfen cannot sell now even if they wanted to - the sp will collapse and DD can forget about his next paycheck ($500k plus expenses plus benefits every year for delivering bugger all).

My position with PEB is very very clear and has been stated many times - you can insinuate for all you like but PEB has got away with making far too many misleading and unrealistic statements to be allowed to be unchallenged.

[When the bass drops]

There seems to be an inkling of Smartshares selling their active holdings in a number of shares, including the likes of Wellington Drive, Pacific Edge, Comvita etc.

I hope they don't do that, but I also concede it is contrary to their "passive approach" to investing. NZX has been a frontrunner in the NZ market with their ETF products through the Smartshares/SuperLife vehicle.

The SuperLife guy finished up his contract in late 2017, so I gather the new Funds Management guy is starting to throw his weight around.

Any thoughts on a "passive manager" retaining some active positions such as Pacific Edge, Wellington Drive?

[trader_jackson]

There seems to be an inkling of Smartshares selling their active holdings in a number of shares, including the likes of Wellington Drive, Pacific Edge, Comvita etc.

I hope they don't do that, but I also concede it is contrary to their "passive approach" to investing. NZX has been a frontrunner in the NZ market with their ETF products through the Smartshares/SuperLife vehicle.

The SuperLife guy finished up his contract in late 2017, so I gather the new Funds Management guy is starting to throw his weight around.

Any thoughts on a "passive manager" retaining some active positions such as Pacific Edge, Wellington Drive?
Unlikely, given how badly many of them haveperformed (which unfortunately includes PEB). By the sounds of it, the selling is already well and truly underwayalthough an SSH notice hasn’t been issued.

[Schrodinger]

Whats their % holding of total. I think above 5% is public?

[When the bass drops]

Previously SuperLife have had to do disclosures, yes 5%+

[Balance]

Harbour, Devon, Salt and the underwriters have yet another opportunity then to top up their PEB shareholding with even cheaper shares!

Think they will step up to the plate?

[Balance]

Slip, sliding away ...... where are the PEB believers?

Cheap shares on offer!

[blackcap]

c.

I hope they don't do that, but I also concede it is contrary to their "passive approach" to investing. NZX has been a frontrunner in the NZ market with their ETF products through the Smartshares/SuperLife vehicle.


. The passive funds FNZ, TNZ etc stay passive and are bound by their constitution and other documents. I doubt very much that Superlife is selling shares on a whim in their passive funds. That would be quite illegal, or at least breach of contract.

The active vehicles that Superlife have are just that, Active. If they want to sell the PEB shares in the Geronimo (or whatever that fund was called) then good on them, that is within the mandate.

Once I found out my partner had her Kiwisaver in said Geronimo, I did a bit of research and found out that it held like a 1/4 of their funds in PEB. Suffice to say I got her switched out quick smart. https://www.superlife.co.nz/investment/sectors-etf-funds/gemino-closed

[Balance]

. The passive funds FNZ, TNZ etc stay passive and are bound by their constitution and other documents. I doubt very much that Superlife is selling shares on a whim in their passive funds. That would be quite illegal, or at least breach of contract.

The active vehicles that Superlife have are just that, Active. If they want to sell the PEB shares in the Geronimo (or whatever that fund was called) then good on them, that is within the mandate.

Once I found out my partner had her Kiwisaver in said Geronimo, I did a bit of research and found out that it held like a 1/4 of their funds in PEB. Suffice to say I got her switched out quick smart. https://www.superlife.co.nz/investment/sectors-etf-funds/gemino-closed

"The Gemino Fund invests in a concentrated portfolio of investments where each individual investment has the potential to provide a return equivalent to doubling in value over a 3-year period."

: - 25.19% in the last year!

: - 3.72% p.a in the last 3 years

Holy crap - takes some kind of genius to register such negative returns in the kind of market we have been in!

WDT, PEB etc !

Oh well, takes all kinds to make a market!

Anyone knows who’s the geniuses/fund managers behind this fund?

[Baa_Baa]

Oh yeah Balance - thanks for reminding me...).

The ignore function works really well, honestly it does. If you don't like being schooled incessantly by those who have more time on their hands than warrants a life away from endless repetitive rebuttals, use it.

I won't see the inevitable reply, unless it's from you or someone else ;)

Good luck Dentie, one day PEB may actually deliver. I just don't know what day that is, nor do I care very much, it's a small punt on a better future and if it happens a biggly upside reward.

Meantime I don't need or care about the incessant reminders, because I ignore them. Simple.

Cheers
BAA

[Balance]

https://stocknessmonster.com/announcements/peb.nzx-280365/

Update almost exactly the same as the one in April 2016!

April 2018 - On CMS - "We are well down the track."

April 2017 - On CMS - "Pleasingly, we are well down the track on this!"

April 2016 - On CMS - "Pleasingly, we are well down the track on this process!"

But wait, there's more!

There is this in November 2015 (2015) - On CMS - "We are progressing well in our discussions ..."


Newbies to this thread will note that supporters of the company are very quick to castigate anyone who points out (yes, maybe repetitively) the failings of the directors and management of PEB.

But they WILL NEVER castigate the company for the repetitive assertions made by PEB (good example re CMS above) which fail to materialise.

Only conclusion one can draw is that they have two standards - one for their beloved company and one for anyone who dares to steer investors away from losing more money with this dog.

So take note and take care.

[When the bass drops]

Let's appoint Balance to managing director of the PEB thread. Anyone want to second that one?

[barney]

Let's appoint Balance to managing director of the PEB thread. Anyone want to second that one?

That would be like voting for President Trump.

[When the bass drops]

Yep I see the comparisons. There might be a policy to send PEBlers over the border and build that wall. Perhaps a Stormy David's character.

[Dentie]

Newbies to this thread will note that supporters of the company are very quick to castigate anyone who points out (yes, maybe repetitively) the failings of the directors and management of PEB.

But they WILL NEVER castigate the company for the repetitive assertions made by PEB (good example re CMS above) which fail to materialise.

Only conclusion one can draw is that they have two standards - one for their beloved company and one for anyone who dares to steer investors away from losing more money with this dog.

So take note and take care.

My advice to any newbies is to "undertake your own thorough research - like you would with any other investment target".

Prospective investors shouldn't allow themselves to be influenced by anonymous poster's (like me!) - and especially those who, despite their self appointed investing guru status, have lost money in PEB (unlike me!). Those posters use threads like this to vent their disappointment and get it out of their system.

Balance, I think you may have come a cropper with PEB because you were (and still are?) trying to apply the research techniques you might use with the Blue Chips with a small (biotech) start up like PEB. They have completely different configurations. One is speculative (risky) - one is not (much less risky). Pretty simple stuff to understand.

What PEB has to offer is world class products. I have always believed the mistake they made was going to the US market prematurely. History has shown the place is a basket (barking?) case when it comes to introducing anything new in the medical/biotech space. The "dog" may not actually be PEB....

[Balance]

Prospective investors shouldn't allow themselves to be influenced by anonymous poster's (like me!) - and especially those who, despite their self appointed investing guru status, have lost money in PEB (unlike me!). Those posters use threads like this to vent their disappointment and get it out of their system.



Haha - sorry to disappoint you and your effort to deflect newbies from my accurate appraisal and calls on PEB by insinuating I write as I do because I lost money.

Have not lost a single cent on PEB and certainly, I have no intention to lose any!

You realize of course that your post above however actually tells a lot about your character!

[Balance]

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?2705-PEB-Pacific-Edge-Ltd/page6

Anyone following this thread will observe that this thread only became 'live' from August 2012 (page 6 - now it's page 1088) when the sp started moving very rapidly upwards.

No issue that I was an early and eager supporter until the misleading information and pathetic attempts to explain away the delays, cash raisings etc started surfacing from the company.

The rest as they say, is history repeating itself.

Ironical, isn't it, that PEB's sp is now back to where it was in 2012?

[Balance]

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?9169-Serko/page22


Well done Balance, and thank you for alerting me to this one. A very healthy addition to my humble portfolio, and on today's news looking very exciting for the years ahead.

For the newbies who read the site and gained the deliberately planted false impression that yours sincerely here only write negative stuff, have a look at Serko.

You can see why my detractors here are so down in the dumps with their investment in PEB?

Since Jan 2017, Serko up 900% (yes, 900%) while poor old PEB shareholders who chose to stay in and ignore all the negative developments and misleading PR are down 43%.

[When the bass drops]

Ups to Serko - good stuff. PEB is a long game, and I assume wise investors only have it as part of a much larger portfolio - your safe-as-houses, your blue chips, your speculative high-risk-high-rewards. It will occur, timing uncertain.

[Balance]

Ups to Serko - good stuff. PEB is a long game, and I assume wise investors only have it as part of a much larger portfolio - your safe-as-houses, your blue chips, your speculative high-risk-high-rewards. It will occur, timing uncertain.

No need to worry then about the F18 results coming out soon - no doubt the results will show:

- More cash burned towards doomsday

- More talk about trans formative customers

- More comments about how great CxBladder suite of products are but patience, patience, patient, patient

- Extending the US$100m revenue target by another 5 years.

All good long term stuff.

[When the bass drops]

The cash will be further used towards the Kaiser signing - not doomsday.

Signing with these big trans-formative customers, they're dealing with the rigor mortis speed of the US health market. This is not to mask the reality that PEB heavily underestimated the difficulties operating in this market.

The PEB sales/commercial/negotiation strategies have been far from perfect, agreed, but there isn't really much more they can do at the moment particularly when it comes to Kaiser. There needs to be some noise created as to the importance of improved/disruptive bladder detection in and around the California medical fraternity, at which time the signing on the dotted line by the head Kaiser personnel will quell the noise.

For the record, yes all shareholders are somewhat frustrated with the timing and have a vested interest in seeing the commercial breakthroughs.

[Balance]

The cash will be further used towards the Kaiser signing - not doomsday.

Signing with these big trans-formative customers, they're dealing with the rigor mortis speed of the US health market. This is not to mask the reality that PEB heavily underestimated the difficulties operating in this market.


3 years - if Kaiser was going to happen, it would have happened by now.

PEB has employed some highly paid sales staff (relationship or account managers, I think they are called) who have been doing what? Burning cash while PEB waits for Kaiser and CMS!

[When the bass drops]

3 years - if Kaiser was going to happen, it would have happened by now.

PEB has employed some highly paid sales staff (relationship or account managers, I think they are called) who have been doing what? Burning cash while PEB waits for Kaiser and CMS!

Balance, you don't know that for sure. I would suggest its most likely a heavy delay, rather than an almighty string-along. Maybe murmurings around the Kaiser staff being trained up on cxbladder testing, to hit the ground running from the appointed time, would say otherwise.

Again, we presume to know exactly what the sales staff are doing.

[Balance]

Balance, you don't know that for sure. I would suggest its most likely a heavy delay, rather than an almighty string-along. Maybe murmurings around the Kaiser staff being trained up on cxbladder testing, to hit the ground running from the appointed time, would say otherwise.

Again, we presume to know exactly what the sales staff are doing.

WTBD - you are assuming of course that all of us are totally dependent on PEB for information.

Believe me, we are NOT!

[Hectorplains]

Maybe murmurings around the Kaiser staff being trained up on cxbladder testing, to hit the ground running from the appointed time, would say otherwise.

Murmurings? If that's true, why have PEB not been singing about this loudly - it's hardly commercially sensitive or anything for Kaiser. Sheesh, everything else even vaguely positive / possible has had an official PEB announcement.

[BigBob]

Murmurings? If that's true, why have PEB not been singing about this loudly - it's hardly commercially sensitive or anything for Kaiser. Sheesh, everything else even vaguely positive / possible has had an official PEB announcement.

They are not murmurings...! It has been reported in the last few (many?) updates... Latest one from 19 April...:

"...while we’ve been working through the negotiations, we’ve also been working with Kaiser’s staff on
the necessary business logistics and the training of the first batch of urologists to ensure that the long
anticipated start-up of commercial tests can occur as expediently as possible following the completion and
signing of the agreement."

[When the bass drops]

Yep, that's what I was referring to.

[Hectorplains]

They are not murmurings...! It has been reported in the last few (many?) updates... Latest one from 19 April...:

"...while we’ve been working through the negotiations, we’ve also been working with Kaiser’s staff on
the necessary business logistics and the training of the first batch of urologists to ensure that the long
anticipated start-up of commercial tests can occur as expediently as possible following the completion and
signing of the agreement."

Okay, then this is at best "murmurings" (WTBD's word, not mine.) It's (deliberately) ambiguous. They have been working "on" the training of Kaiser urologists... You have evidence of it being otherwise?

[BigBob]

Okay, then this is at best "murmurings" (WTBD's word, not mine.) It's (deliberately) ambiguous. They have been working "on" the training of Kaiser urologists... You have evidence of it being otherwise?

They have reported that they are working with KP staff on quick startup before...

I have no information to support or dismiss this assertion... It is Balance who allegedly has information from alternative sources...

[Hectorplains]

They have reported that they are working with KP staff on quick startup before...

I have no information to support or dismiss this assertion... It is Balance who allegedly has information from alternative sources...


I have contacted Kaiser asking for clarification on if there has been actual training of urologists and if so what exactly this might mean. I'll be happy to share any response... hopeful it's not in 3 or more years time.

[BigBob]

I have contacted Kaiser asking for clarification on if there has been actual training of urologists and if so what exactly this might mean. I'll be happy to share any response... hopeful it's not in 3 or more years time.

Good idea and if you actually get a meaningful reply, it would be great if you could share it... This surely is a bit like watching paint dry and the time frames remind me of something once commonly referred to as NOG time... :-)

[Balance]

I have contacted Kaiser asking for clarification on if there has been actual training of urologists and if so what exactly this might mean. I'll be happy to share any response... hopeful it's not in 3 or more years time.

Good on you, Hectorplains.

From PEB : "Cxbladder is a non-invasive, urine-based laboratory test that is accurate, easy to use and clinically validated".

How much training do the urologists need to tell patients to piss into a pot?

Deliberately ambiguous is too kind a word to put on PEB's spin on what's happening with Kaiser.

[winner69]

Here’s a good little job on the side for you Balance

Not very demanding (unless you really want to stir them up) and well paid

https://quoteapi.com/resources/da9866271f9d0071/announcements/peb.nzx/317735/PEB_Request_for_Director_Nominations.pdf

[Balance]

Here’s a good little job on the side for you Balance

Not very demanding (unless you really want to stir them up) and well paid

https://quoteapi.com/resources/da9866271f9d0071/announcements/peb.nzx/317735/PEB_Request_for_Director_Nominations.pdf

Haha - and sit around the boardroom table looking at the cash burn?

[winner69]

Close at 31.5

That seems awfully low

[Hectorplains]

I have contacted Kaiser asking for clarification on if there has been actual training of urologists and if so what exactly this might mean. I'll be happy to share any response... hopeful it's not in 3 or more years time.

I have chased answers across every contact platform that I could. In the limited response I received, and these were all by phone, Kaiser won't even go as far as to confirm that they are even in negotiation with PEB about anything, anywhere, anytime. They're one superbly non-leaky ship! Sorry, I've drawn a big blank.

[When the bass drops]

It appears to be common practice for large organisations to not reveal any connection to a vendor UNTIL something has been made official from that large organisation. Kaiser won't be unique to this.

In a somewhat small comparison, I've done hundreds of searches on websites using key words, knowing full well other associated parties to that business, and nothing comes up on the search. This is even for established connections, so you can imagine in a case where an established connection is not official that there would be silence of the highest order.

Appreciate your due diligence on this Hectorplains (a phone call is a very pragmatic step); we're all keen to see what eventuates.

[trader_jackson]

Close at 31.5

That seems awfully low

now at 33.0... not quite so awfully low

[Balance]

now at 33.0... not quite so awfully low


Another SSH, another top up, another significant number of shares brought by an insto... Months ago (maybe even years) I did mention the instos/underwriters are buying so much they may well end up owning all of the loss making PEB..

"Ramp 'em up and sell 'em down."
I just haven't seen the sell 'em down part too much

Buyer at 33c ran away rather quickly? :D

Down down down is the trend - no other trendline visible, short or long term!

Soon, will have a '2' in front of it if Kaiser thingi does not happen.

[blackcap]

Buyer at 33c ran away rather quickly? :D

Down down down is the trend - no other trendline visible, short or long term!

Soon, will have a '2' in front of it if Kaiser thingi does not happen.

If the Kaiser thing does not happen then I am afraid PEB will be in more trouble than having a 2 in front of their SP. But if it does happen... well if they can get it before the next capital raise then anything up to $1 is possible.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/318301

"Numbers generally in line with expectations".

Except that NOT one number met expectations!

No wonder sp down to 31c.

[blackcap]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/318301

"Numbers generally in line with expectations".

Except that NOT one number met expectations!

No wonder sp down to 31c.

This bit is quite funny if not comical:
o The revenue number in the financial accounts for FY18 will be lower
than under the previous revenue accounting standard:
Under the previous accounting standard as used by Pacific Edge for FY17
financial results, revenue was recognised when tests were performed. This per
test revenue was set using an average of the historic per test revenue that
had been received from a large number of tests completed, for these patients
to date. With the change to the new standard, where revenue for these US
customers will be recognised when the cash is received, there will be a
reduction in the reported sales revenue for these US tests. The change will
mean that Pacific Edge will no longer report accrued test revenue for the US
component of the revenue.

This bit is actually very worrysome if you are a PEB holder:
Pacific Edge's FY18 plan included a small contribution to the
FY18 revenue from Kaiser Permanente however the Company has not yet generated
any sales from Kaiser Permanente. The commercial agreement continues to move
forward however this is taking longer than anticipated to finalise. In
addition, early sales to the Veterans Administration have been lower than
expected.

[winner69]

One good thing there shouldn’t be any bad debts under the new reporting standards ....cause all the bills stay in their ‘billing and reimbursement process’

And cash burn ~$18m ...hmmm

[winner69]

Our David won’t understand a word of it .....accounting stuff not one of his strengths ...after all he is a scientist .....whose probably never signed off a set of accounts that show a profit in his life (even his previous life)

[Ggcc]

Our David won’t understand a word of it .....accounting stuff not one of his strengths ...after all he is a scientist .....whose probably never signed off a set of accounts that show a profit in his life (even his previous life)
Most employees don’t worry about the bottom line they worry about their job security

[Leftfield]

One good thing there shouldn’t be any bad debts under the new reporting standards ....cause all the bills stay in their ‘billing and reimbursement process’

And cash burn ~$18m ...hmmm

Next thing they'll change is the accounting period. Anything to avoid the reality.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

No worries - it wasn't flagged as price sensitive... looks like Mr Market disagrees though. Me thinks the Kaiser and Veterans bits probably would be. Interesting it couldn't wait for the reporting next week.

Could be a good investment if hope is your main strategy.

[Balance]

No worries - it wasn't flagged as price sensitive... looks like Mr Market disagrees though. Me thinks the Kaiser and Veterans bits probably would be. Interesting it couldn't wait for the reporting next week.

Could be a good investment if hope is your main strategy.

Negotiations started with Kaiser in April 2017 (a year and 1 months ago) after the large scale user program was completed.

Aug 24th 2017 : "Kaiser .... we are now nearing the end of the negotiations on a commercial agreement"

Nov 29th 2017 : "Commercial negotiations are progressing positively with Kaiser Permanente"

April 19th 2018 : "Making good progress"

May 22th 2018 : "The commercial agreement continues to move forward"

Looks to me like the Kaiser deal is dead from Kaiser's point of view but PEB keeps on hoping?

[Balance]

This bit is quite funny if not comical:
o The revenue number in the financial accounts for FY18 will be lower
than under the previous revenue accounting standard:
Under the previous accounting standard as used by Pacific Edge for FY17
financial results, revenue was recognised when tests were performed. This per
test revenue was set using an average of the historic per test revenue that
had been received from a large number of tests completed, for these patients
to date. With the change to the new standard, where revenue for these US
customers will be recognised when the cash is received, there will be a
reduction in the reported sales revenue for these US tests. The change will
mean that Pacific Edge will no longer report accrued test revenue for the US
component of the revenue.


Creative deceptive accounting - revenues were manufactured.

How the heck did the accounts passed audit?

[winner69]

Did I see 28 cents ...hasn’t been that low for a while?

[zspoon]

Pacific Edge provided a good summary of the nature of revenue recognised, and the risk that significant reversals could occur in their FY17 financial statements, which coincidentally, was the year in which they recorded a $2.6m bad debt expense for the first time, reversing revenue previously recognised:

“Revenue from Cxbladder sales is accrued at specified Gross Recoverable Revenue (“GRR”) amounts, which are considered to be estimated net realisable amounts due from patients and third-party payers for services rendered, including estimated retroactive adjustments under reimbursement agreements with third-party payers. Under the terms of various agreements, regulations, and statutes, certain elements of third-party reimbursement are subject to negotiation, audit, and/or final determination by the third party payers. In addition, laws and regulations governing Medicare and Medicaid programs are complex and subject to interpretation. As a result, there is at least a reasonable possibility that recorded estimates will change by a material amount in the near term. Differences between amounts previously estimated for retroactive adjustments and amounts subsequently determined to be recoverable or payable are included in net patient service revenue in the year that such amounts become known. Changes in prior-year estimates will be accounted for in the period that the change occurs.”

In FY16, only a generic statement around revenue recognition was made.

To look at how the revenue recognition works under IAS 18, an analogous situation might be a sale where the buyer has a right of return. Typically you wouldn’t recognise revenue until the customer has the goods and hasn’t exercised their rejection option – however, the door is left open to use historical data to estimate the expected return rate, and recognise revenue to this extent, with reversal or incremental recognition made once rejection or acceptance is known.

What’s more challenging to understand is whether there was enough historical data about the behaviour of the third parties providing the cash such that the expected cash receipt rate could be reasonably estimated. Given a) the complexity of the situations in which non-payment could occur and b) the comparatively short duration of the retrospective period from which historical trends could be drawn for to apply to future revenue and in the context of an array of new third party funders, it seems challenging to accept the treatment applied was reasonable - something I think the significant later reversals demonstrate (however hindsight is 20/20). Whatever your views on this, the auditor must have been comfortable enough with the judgments made by Pacific Edge management.

Looking ahead to the application of IFRS 15, it’s hard to know exactly how they’ve landed on “cash accounting” US revenue under IFRS 15, as this is an extremely layman definition of what’s probably a much more complicated assessment under IFRS 15, which is itself significantly more complicated, and prescriptive, than IAS 18.

I would suspect that they might in fact be falling down on the first step of the five step revenue recognition model which is to “identify the contract with a customer”. This sounds obvious, but one of the elements of this assessment is that collection of consideration is considered probable. Given the reversals which we have now seen occur under IAS 18, it’s possible that it was not possible to realistically say (initially at least) that collection was probable with the recent history of significant reversals. This may have acted as a natural inflection point where a more conservative approach to revenue recognition could be taken without them needing to restate purely based on an accounting policy change. Where the criteria for recognising a contact are not met, the contract continually reassessed until the point at which the criteria are met, and then the next steps of revenue recognition are moved into.

The frustrating thing is that Pacific Edge in their FY17 annual report noted that in respect of their initial assessment of the impact of IFRS 15 “this standard is not expected to significantly impact the Group”. Presumably at this stage, analysis must have been at best, preliminary. This falls against the backdrop of the FMA specifically stressing that they believed that many entities had not yet started proper impact assessments, or even thought about the impact of implementation. Unfortunately, impact assessments of standards issued but not yet effective is not required as part of interim financial statements so the FY18 interim financial statements were silent on the IFRS 15 transition.

I find it a pretty cynical move to then provide an updated assessment seven days before the release of the FY18 financial statements clarifying that actually, there is going to be a significant revenue impact from the application of IFRS 15. There has been a huge lead in to IFRS 15, and I find it extremely difficult to believe they’ve only just landed on their final approach to revenue recognition 7 days before the release of their financial statements.

Disc: Regrettably hold

[drcjp]

Did I see 28 cents ...hasn’t been that low for a while?

Hasn't been below 30c since late 2012

[blackcap]

Did I see 28 cents ...hasn’t been that low for a while?

Has it ever been that low? My 5 year chart shows 31 as the low but I guess before 2013 it may have been lower? All this talk about tests being revenue and putting a $ figure on them when no $ is actually coming in may have spooked the market for a bit. But as DD says, they are on track and all is well. Should be a good buy sometime.

[winner69]

Hasn't been below 30c since late 2012

Seems right ...not long before it went to $1.67 or something

Who sold then?

Not me ...I sold at $1.50 odd

[whatsup]

Looks like to me that PEB are getting their accounts retrospectively in order so that they can go back to the market for more money, they are trying to comply with the U S accounting standards so that they can raise there and not be found to be in breach of U S law , very distressing to me if that is the case , have they been pulling the wool over N Z investors and regulators eyes ?

[hardt]

Looks like to me that PEB are getting their accounts retrospectively in order so that they can go back to the market for more money, they are trying to comply with the U S accounting standards so that they can raise there and not be found to be in breach of U S law , very distressing to me if that is the case , have they been pulling the wool over N Z investors and regulators eyes ?

Just about everyone on here knows of that ever increasing receivables pile...
They will need the market to keep them afloat until/if that Kaiser deal happens ( as they have been doing for a while now )

[Balance]

Just about everyone on here knows of that ever increasing receivables pile...
They will need the market to keep them afloat until/if that Kaiser deal happens ( as they have been doing for a while now )

Yes, just about everyone except the ones who swore that PEB never gave away free tests and we were the ones who had no idea how medical reimbursements worked in the States!

Turned out that PEB was busy 'manufacturing' sales revenues and gross profits (in effect, minimizing the already sizeable losses).

I honestly cannot see how PEB can recover its credibility after this. The fund managers are going to have to justify to their investment committees why they should invest in PEB, alone alone put in more money!

[Schrodinger]

I will be buying lots of popcorn..

[blackcap]

Yes, just about everyone except the ones who swore that PEB never gave away free tests and we were the ones who had no idea how medical reimbursements worked in the States!

Turned out that PEB was busy 'manufacturing' sales revenues and gross profits (in effect, minimizing the already sizeable losses).

I honestly cannot see how PEB can recover its credibility after this. The fund managers are going to have to justify to their investment committees why they should invest in PEB, alone alone put in more money!

My wise finance professor always said to me "cashflow is paramount, all else is noise". Wise words those, especially the light started flickering once I embarked on an accounting degree. As a naieve youngster I thought "revenue", "expenses" and "profit" were good parameters but now I know a lot better.

[winner69]

My wise finance professor always said to me "cashflow is paramount, all else is noise". Wise words those, especially the light started flickering once I embarked on an accounting degree. As a naieve youngster I thought "revenue", "expenses" and "profit" were good parameters but now I know a lot better.

So true blackcap

The Cash Flow Statement is the most important part of the accounts

Pity more punters don’t understand it better

Classic example is Pushpay ....reported revenues arev$70m odd but cash from customers is $38m. The difference is the cut taken by the card companies (MasterCard etc) - Pushpay never see that cash butvstill count it as revenues (which is proper accounting treatment with the fees going into cost of sales)

[winner69]

David says it’s ‘been a busy year’ losing $20m (accumulated losses now $120m)

Just imagine the gush of cash that’ll come flowing when all those ‘billable’ tests get paid - transformational

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/318614/280066.pdf

[Schrodinger]

So FY 18 op revenue is $3.4M?? I am trying to understand their shambolic release. Incoming cap raise and/or staff reduction. Its border line fraud or misleading the market imo.

[Balance]

David says it’s ‘been a busy year’ losing $20m (accumulated losses now $120m)

Just imagine the gush of cash that’ll come flowing when all those ‘billable’ tests get paid - transformational

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/318614/280066.pdf

The most appalling set of financials any auditor would have seen in their auditing life best describes PEB results.

Not because of the losses (expected) or the cash outflow (expected).

But because it's very clear that PEB had indulged in creative and deceptive accounting in the worse manner - booking and recording revenues when the revenues were based upon 'expected' reimbursements.

In other words, pray and hope but let's deceive the market in the meantime that the company was actually making progress.

But for the change in accounting policies and restatement of the historical accounts, the company would be making another round of account receivables write-offs.

Operating revenue of $3.4m with one year to go to get the US$100m target - HUMBUG!

[drcjp]

I would love the chance to charge $235 a test....

[drcjp]

Operating revenue of $3.4m with one year to go to get the US$100m target - HUMBUG!

Yeah granted in this case, but it can happen. Thanks to statins, CRP went from $10M p.a. to $120M p.a. in 2 years.

PEB really need to find a companion status for their test as well.

[kiwidollabill]

wow...... I've been a bit of a critic over time but I never thought it was this bad.... the difference between 8.1M and 3.2M isnt just creative accounting in anticipation of rev, its outright lying about the state of the company. I'd be interested in seeing the FY16 corrected numbers, has there been essentially no cash growth in 24 months?

[Balance]

wow...... I've been a bit of a critic over time but I never thought it was this bad.... the difference between 8.1M and 3.2M isnt just creative accounting in anticipation of rev, its outright lying about the state of the company. I'd be interested in seeing the FY16 corrected numbers, has there been essentially no cash growth in 24 months?

https://www.pacificedgedx.com/assets/investor-files/PEB-ANNUAL-REPORT-2016.pdf

Can work back from 2016 accounts which showed accounts receivable of $5.73m but is now restated at $1.46m - a drop of $4.27m.

Revenue showed in 2016 accounts was $4.98m.

Simplistically, it means that PEB did not even generated $1m of real revenues in 2016.

[Balance]

https://www.pacificedgedx.com/assets/investor-files/PEB-ANNUAL-REPORT-2016.pdf

Can work back from 2016 accounts which showed accounts receivable of $5.73m but is now restated at $1.46m - a drop of $4.27m.

Revenue showed in 2016 accounts was $4.98m.

Simplistically, it means that PEB did not even generated $1m of real revenues in 2016.

Means after proclaiming to all and sundry that PEB made its first commercial in the US in October 2013 (yes, nearly 3 years ago), PEB did not even sell 5,000 tests or $1m of real sales in 2016!

So much for all the bullish announcements and positive progresses made by this company in the last 5 years!

What credibility has this company got left when it comes to the market for more cash - what's left in the balance sheet as at 31 March 2018 is enough to last just another 10 months of cash burn from now.

[Ggcc]

I see this company looking more
Like a takeover target, if the technology is so fantastic. I would not have a clue at the price they would want to pay for it, but US companies with deep pockets might find PEB very good to add to their other products. I would not expect to see an offer greater than 60-70 cents per share though. Just my thought of the day.

[Balance]

I see this company looking more
Like a takeover target, if the technology is so fantastic. I would not have a clue at the price they would want to pay for it, but US companies with deep pockets might find PEB very good to add to their other products. I would not expect to see an offer greater than 60-70 cents per share though. Just my thought of the day.

So you think there is a company out there will pay:

$280m to $325m

for a product which has singularly failed to get traction after having over a hundred million dollars thrown at the commercialization program in the last 5 years?

I held the view which was challenged by some on this site that PEB has been one of the most dishonest company with its announcements in the market.

Today's announcement of non-existent revenues in 2016 confirms my view imo.

There is but one hope left for PEB - it is to team up with an existing player with established distribution channels (J & J for eg) and cut operating expenses to less than $5m a year.

Start by getting rid of the existing management.

[winner69]

Chemists usually pretty good at magical jiggery pokery stuff ....when it comes to accounting they do it even better than artists

[forest]

So you think there is a company out there will pay:

$280m to $325m

for a product which has singularly failed to get traction after having over a hundred million dollars thrown at the commercialization program in the last 5 years?

I held the view which was challenged by some on this site that PEB has been one of the most dishonest company with its announcements in the market.

Today's announcement of non-existent revenues in 2016 confirms my view imo.

There is but one hope left for PEB - it is to team up with an existing player with established distribution channels (J & J for eg) and cut operating expenses to less than $5m a year.

Start by getting rid of the existing management.

I agree with most of what you say about PEB Balance.
The previous Chairman Chris Swann was clearly out of his dept chairing this company.
However under the present Chairman Chris Gallaher the accounting system has been changed for the better. Should we give the present chair some more time to prove himself?
I am not following this company very closely lately so have no opinion on this.

[Ggcc]

So you think there is a company out there will pay:

$280m to $325m

for a product which has singularly failed to get traction after having over a hundred million dollars thrown at the commercialization program in the last 5 years?

I held the view which was challenged by some on this site that PEB has been one of the most dishonest company with its announcements in the market.

Today's announcement of non-existent revenues in 2016 confirms my view imo.

There is but one hope left for PEB - it is to team up with an existing player with established distribution channels (J & J for eg) and cut operating expenses to less than $5m a year.

Start by getting rid of the existing management.
If what they say about their products being fantastic and how far ahead they are of any competition out there is correct, then the issue becomes a management problem not a product problem.

Then with the correct management, any fantastic product would take off with the right push.

The idea of any offer lower than 60-70 cents per share would mean that negotiations would take too long before any investors could get their hands on this (fantastic) product.

That is where I got my valuation.

[drcjp]

General rule in biotech; buyout is 4x - 4.5x multiple of revenue. Say top end here which = 4.5 x 3.4 = NZ$15.3M.

This = 3.3c per share.

Sorry, but that's what I would expect if its bought out right now.

[minimoke]

If what they say about their products being fantastic and how far ahead they are of any competition out there is correct, then the issue becomes a management problem not a product problem.

Then with the correct management, any fantastic product would take off with the right push. .If its a fantastic product why aren't they flogging it to countries other than USA?

[winner69]

If its a fantastic product why aren't they flogging it to countries other than USA?

Too busy......

[Balance]

If its a fantastic product why aren't they flogging it to countries other than USA?

Not for lack of trying - Spain, Singapore, Australia, Hong Kong to name four.

[Balance]

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/c3c9574b/pacific-edge-shares-drop-9-4-as-slow-sales-progress-bring-cash-burn-in-focus.html

"Cash will become a concern in several months' time ... because these slow negotiations".

Note the way these analysts do not do any research whatsoever, relying almost entirely on the words of the companies they 'analyze'?

How the heck do they know that the negotiations are slow? Have they checked?

Given PEB's track record of misleading the market and quietly dropping follow ups when nothing happens, the negotiations may already be dead.

[trader_jackson]

About 2 and a half years ago (either oct or nov 2015) I said I would give PEB 2 years to deliver something.

That something, mainly Kaiser Permanente & CMS, has not been delivered, despite my generosity in giving them another half year.

I am not sure what is going on, but I feel this should have been delivered.

PEB is the only share that is in the red (although has always been a low single digit percentage of the portfolio) and the only share on the dozen or two I have commented on sharetrader I seem to have been seriously out of step with.

It is unfortunate... I don't want to sell because it should be a success... maybe one day it will, but as far as my conclusions go, it has not been a success... the 'now or never' phase is passing, if not already passed, and every day that goes by is a step closer to the grave yard, joining the likes of WYN, CBL and PPL - previous bigly growth companies that just couldn't make it work (for various, and yes quite different, reasons)

I intend to remove myself from the share register in due course.

[Balance]

About 2 and a half years ago (either oct or nov 2015) I said I would give PEB 2 years to deliver something.

That something, mainly Kaiser Permanente & CMS, has not been delivered, despite my generosity in giving them another half year.

I am not sure what is going on, but I feel this should have been delivered.

PEB is the only share that is in the red (although has always been a low single digit percentage of the portfolio) and the only share on the dozen or two I have commented on sharetrader I seem to have been seriously out of step with.

It is unfortunate... I don't want to sell because it should be a success... maybe one day it will, but as far as my conclusions go, it has not been a success... the 'now or never' phase is passing, if not already passed, and every day that goes by is a step closer to the grave yard, joining the likes of WYN, CBL and PPL - previous bigly growth companies that just couldn't make it work (for various, and yes quite different, reasons)

I intend to remove myself from the share register in due course.


Sad?

Tragic that so many on this site chose to ignore the obvious (like ever increasing receivables) highlighted by posters as indicative of a company whose accounts and projections cannot be trusted.

What's even more tragic is that one poster here went so far as to dispute (implying he had confirmation from the company) that PEB was giving out free tests in its user programs.

This company to me will always be remembered for the statement by the then Chairman of 'several tens of thousands of tests' in late 2013 and his subsequent sale of shares, along with the CEO in 2014.

[winner69]

t_j said - I intend to remove myself from the share register in due course.

Sounds like shReholder suicide .....you going to sell or just ask the registry to remove your name.

[blackcap]

I intend to remove myself from the share register in due course.
[/COLOR][/FONT]

Good on you for coming to your senses. But if I were you I would take what is on offer while it is still around.... clock might be ticking on this one.

[Balance]

Good on you for coming to your senses. But if I were you I would take what is on offer while it is still around.... clock might be ticking on this one.

Sp looking grim.

Notice whenever there is volume on the bid that the sellers (obviously volume sellers) are taking the opportunity to sell?

[blackcap]

Sp looking grim.

Notice whenever there is volume on the bid that the sellers (obviously volume sellers) are taking the opportunity to sell?

Yeah I did notice. I was quite perplexed who would be putting any volume on the bid. See the 27 is pretty much gone now too...

[Balance]

Yeah I did notice. I was quite perplexed who would be putting any volume on the bid. See the 27 is pretty much gone now too...

Underwriter institutions attempting to do a King Canute?

27 gone.

Suspect the market in its wildest most negative dreams did not expect revenues after 5 years of commercialization to be $3.4m and for 2016 to be less than $1m.

Such a long long loooooong way from US$100m projected for 2019.

[minimoke]

900,000 shares traded today. And only 43,000 left in the buy queue. So glad this never went into my high risk portfolio

[Balance]

900,000 shares traded today. And only 43,000 left in the buy queue. So glad this never went into my high risk portfolio

Like the way that $1,000 was used to close the sp at 28c?

Clearest sign that the sucker institutions are trying to suck the rest of the market into their dark hole!

[drcjp]

Nothing like a good laugh. Pacific Edge CEO says Labour need to rethink R&D tax credits.
https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pacific-edge-narrows-loss-pushes-us-uptake-fr-p-216046

The Callaghan pot is nearly dry.

[kiwidollabill]

Nothing like a good laugh. Pacific Edge CEO says Labour need to rethink R&D tax credits.
https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pacific-edge-narrows-loss-pushes-us-uptake-fr-p-216046

The Callaghan pot is nearly dry.

Having dealt with Callaghan I think is one good move the govt has taken. Their criteria for awarding the grants hasnt been good at picking winners....

[Sideshow Bob]

Further to revenue, I was looking at something else and came across them in last years Deloitte Fast 50:

https://deloitteprivate.co.nz/fast50/2017-fast-50/2017-fast-50/

Old news, I would have thought this would have been quite embarrassing, after all of these years, millions of dollars spent etc etc. Should be focusing on other stuff rather than entering competitions to try and puff their chest out....

[minimoke]

Further to revenue, I was looking at something else and came across them in last years Deloitte Fast 50:

https://deloitteprivate.co.nz/fast50/2017-fast-50/2017-fast-50/

Old news, I would have thought this would have been quite embarrassing, after all of these years, millions of dollars spent etc etc. Should be focusing on other stuff rather than entering competitions to try and puff their chest out....
It was embarrassing at the time PEB wasnt exactly a newbie fast grower even then - and it was coming off a low low.

(Those list are just pure puffery)

[Balance]

It was embarrassing at the time PEB wasnt exactly a newbie fast grower even then - and it was coming off a low low.

(Those list are just pure puffery)

Nothing surprises too much with PEB any more but ....

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-records-loss-again

These comments make anyone think they live in the same planet as DD & PEB?

"He was particularly pleased that following October forecasts, lab throughput hit 91% of forecasts, revenue was 95% of that forecast and billable tests hit 96%".

Note : First half results known and the company still cannot meet just the second half forecasts - and DD thinks PEB has done well!!!!! Typifies how PEB is run - no accountability but very generous salaries and benefits all round for directors and management even when they failed to reach forecasts!

''I don't see the need for that, [capital raising] but you can never be categorical on the position,'' he said."

Note : Cash will run out within the next 12 months - irrespective of PEB achieving its 'new' forecast of 23,000 billable tests in 2019 (ie.$5.4m revenue). Forecasts being dependent upon the 'transformative' customers coming through.

[Balance]

Having dealt with Callaghan I think is one good move the govt has taken. Their criteria for awarding the grants hasnt been good at picking winners....

Yup - Wynyard, GeoP but to name two!

[minimoke]

if i read this "Pacific Edge said while it has progressed commercial negotiations with targeted large-scale healthcare organisations in the US over the past 12 months, including Kaiser Permanente and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid, both are taking longer than expected to complete " (From here http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/c3c9574b/pacific-edge-shares-drop-9-4-as-slow-sales-progress-bring-cash-burn-in-focus.html) I get the impression Kaiser is a targeted organisation but a negotiation isnt complete as it is taking longer than expected

If I read We already have two of our four targeted, significant US customers under contract and.." and "Mr Darling said there ''was a question mark'' over going back to shareholders, but he believed the combined cash in hand and future test payments, especially from the US' Kaiser Permanente and Centres for Medicare and Medicaid, made earlier break-even predictions for full year 2019 ''doable''."(from here https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-records-loss-again) I get the impression Kaiser is a done deal and its purely a timing of cash coming in.

[Schrodinger]

PLX revenue of $12M and Mcap $25M, PEB rev $3.4M Mcap $150M. I know which investment bank I'm buying and getting my research from...

[t.rexjr]

It is possible that it's changed accounting policies to show 'cash paid for its US tests to give a clearer view of its cash revenues' is because there might actually be some... Though sh*t, I wouldn't bet on it...

[Schrodinger]

Also interested to see the revised forecast from Forsyth lol

[Balance]

Also interested to see the revised forecast from Forsyth lol

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-corrects-accounts

Forsyth Barr swallowed half the dead fish (hard) back in September 2017 - "Forsyth Barr broker Lyn Howe said Pacific Edge ''was not doing itself any favours'' around confidence in how much cash is actually coming into the business."

Am expecting they are going to have to put a 'sell' on PEB this time round.

Forsyth Barr's credibility is shot anyway so may be a case of salvaging what's left of their calls on this stock.

[Balance]

Good on you for coming to your senses. But if I were you I would take what is on offer while it is still around.... clock might be ticking on this one.

14 cents now and sellers seem keen to just get the hell out.

If it is one of the institutions trying to get out, PEB's sp will be 15c before it can get out.

Hope TJ is out.

[minimoke]

14 cents now and sellers seem keen to just get the hell out.

If it is one of the institutions trying to get out, PEB's sp will be 15c before it can get out.

Hope TJ is out.
I think you mean 24 cents

[Balance]

I think you mean 24 cents

Oops - you are right of course.

[Sgt Pepper]

Oops - you are right of course.

PEB
Death spiral?
Take over target?
Rebound?

disc :not a shareholder

[Ggcc]

I think a takeover target it is..... Only if their products are as good as they say.

[silverblizzard888]

I wonder who is still buying at these prices, its like a merry-go-round of people taking turns to lose money.

[Balance]

I wonder who is still buying at these prices, its like a merry-go-round of people taking turns to lose money.

Most apt description of the story of PEB shares!

Maybe the institutions stuck with the stock are playing 'pass the parcel'? Whoever is the last holder when PEB carts it wins the booby prize.

[emveha]

In at 78, out at 41... Lesson learned: there be crooks.

[Balance]

In at 78, out at 41... Lesson learned: there be crooks.

If I lost any money in PEB, I would certainly be following it up with the NZX and FMA.

PEB has issued statements which were blatantly incorrect and deliberating misleading (sales which are actually fictitious based upon generally accepted accounting practices) and I am astounded that the auditors have allowed the accounts to go through.

I am sure that some of the cheerleading posters here (who are deadly quiet now) would not have posted some of their comments (eg. no free tests - even user program tests will be paid, accounts receivables are only a matter of collection etc etc) unless they have received some assurances from the company, directly or indirectly.

The institutions will not take action because they will look like fools - and it's not their monies anyway.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/318977

Smartshares getting out - only 20m more shares to go?

TIMMMMMBERRRRRRRRR ....!!!!!

[winner69]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/318977

Smartshares getting out - only 20m more shares to go?

TIMMMMMBERRRRRRRRR ....!!!!!

Wonder who bought that many ....a believer no doubt

[Balance]

Wonder who bought that many ....a believer no doubt

Long and wrong so they keep digging!

[Schrodinger]

I would have to agree. The recent change in accounting reporting would have been very hard for an average investor to understand. Also the previous revenue reporting was misleading (not contracted - guaranteed revenue) which gave a false impression of growth.

The NZX is trying to grow their business and this awful auditing/reporting hurts the market.

[drcjp]

Current PE of 0.7c imo. Buyout target around 3c, as I've stated before.
At NZ$14M buyout, rationalise staff and grow what they have, it would be a viable good going concern.
Will that happen?

[Balance]

I would have to agree. The recent change in accounting reporting would have been very hard for an average investor to understand. Also the previous revenue reporting was misleading (not contracted - guaranteed revenue) which gave a false impression of growth.

The NZX is trying to grow their business and this awful auditing/reporting hurts the market.

PEB has done a huge dis-favour to the whole biomed and biotech industry in NZ.

Companies complain often bitterly of lack of access to capital in NZ to develop and commercialize products which is true.

PEB has had access to plenty but instead of being a poster boy of what can be achieved (eg. CSL & Cohlear on ASX), PEB has showed itself to be an unreliable and untrustworthy company to invest in.

Real shame for NZ.

Shame on PEB and the directors and DD.

[kiwidollabill]

PEB has done a huge dis-favour to the whole biomed and biotech industry in NZ.

Companies complain often bitterly of lack of access to capital in NZ to develop and commercialize products which is true.

PEB has had access to plenty but instead of being a poster boy of what can be achieved (eg. CSL & Cohlear on ASX), PEB has showed itself to be an unreliable and untrustworthy company to invest in.

Real shame for NZ.

Shame on PEB and the directors and DD.

I wish it wasnt the case... I've heard PEB refered to as 'NZs most successful university startup...."

[drcjp]

I wish it wasnt the case... I've heard PEB refered to as 'NZs most successful university startup...."

Which would be wrong. That accolade in modern times belongs probably to AD Instruments, which wasn't held by the Uni for long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADInstruments
NZs best medical research company is/was Glaxo, which started in Bunnythorpe, Wgtn, later to become part of GSK.
History lesson over.

[Sgt Pepper]

Which would be wrong. That accolade in modern times belongs probably to AD Instruments, which wasn't held by the Uni for long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADInstruments
NZs best medical research company is/was Glaxo, which started in Bunnythorpe, Wgtn, later to become part of GSK.
History lesson over.

also MOLTENO OPHTHALMIC, started in Dunedin by Professor Tony Moltemo in 1985, exports specialist ophthalmic surgical implants/ equipment all over the world. Outstandingly successful private company, which most people have never of

[Balance]

also MOLTENO OPHTHALMIC, started in Dunedin by Professor Tony Moltemo in 1985, exports specialist ophthalmic surgical implants/ equipment all over the world. Outstandingly successful private company, which most people have never of

Nice to know.

Bravo!

[kiwidollabill]

Which would be wrong. That accolade in modern times belongs probably to AD Instruments, which wasn't held by the Uni for long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADInstruments
NZs best medical research company is/was Glaxo, which started in Bunnythorpe, Wgtn, later to become part of GSK.
History lesson over.

Agree, ADI is a good one. Chatted to Michael McKnight a few times, lives not far from me, by his own account is was many years of hard graft to get where they are.

Molteno is a good one.

I 'thought' Stretchsense were going to be a good modern day example untill they screwed up the deal with their main customer and had to lay off most of the workforce...

[Balance]

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-optimistic-new-markets

"Cxbladder to completely replace cytology and be used to complement cystoscopy in the clinical care path for patients presenting to clinicians with haematuria (blood in the urine)," Mr Darling said.

How can you not get excited about the bullishness?









Only problem - it's a blast from the past 7 years ago!

[Balance]

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-records-loss-again

For those still looking for inspiration (after being fed a diet of dead rats disguised as 'good' news like great sales growth), there may be hope as '''Canterbury tests are really rocketing,''!!!!!!!!!!

[enzed staffy]

I asked a DHB boss about this statement about 5-6years ago - his response was that it didn't negate the requirement for cystoscopy (as there are other cause of haematuria this would diagnose and treat) and just added test cost to the work up bottom line. Granted it may be useful to "detect" return of bladder ca but it was unclear with this would remove surveillance cystoscopy.

discl - not holding. But held some years ago from 28c to .$1something before I became sadly unconvinced

[Hectorplains]

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-records-loss-again

For those still looking for inspiration (after being fed a diet of dead rats disguised as 'good' news like great sales growth), there may be hope as '''Canterbury tests are really rocketing,''!!!!!!!!!!

I approached CDHB, I hold NZ media accreditation, seeking comment on PEB / DD's statement. They have declined to comment at this time. Much like Kaiser, another of PEB's 'partners' don't want to talk about their partnership, full stop. You can read into that what you will...

[Balance]

I approached CDHB, I hold NZ media accreditation, seeking comment on PEB / DD's statement. They have declined to comment at this time. Much like Kaiser, another of PEB's 'partners' don't want to talk about their partnership, full stop. You can read into that what you will...

With PEB, there is only ever one way to read the wildly positive and exuberant pronouncements of this company and its management - their track record and history tell us that.

It's all PR with very little substance.

DD thinks he is a salesman peddling a miracle cure with such a statement - 'Canterbury tests are really rocketing'.

From 50 tests to 200 tests is certainly 'rocketing' but in the overall scheme of things, is like the proverbial pissing against the wind.

[Ryrynz]

All I can say is that you should always have a buy out price regardless.. I bought in at $1.. rode it all the way to 1.70 or so, then the crash happened. Didn't realize just how bad it was.
Watched it drop under what I bought it for, thought about selling but didn't. Held on to the hopes it would eventually turn around, sixty cents.. now if it only goes up a bit I'll sell.. 50, 40.. 30.. 24.. I've had enough. I've lost more on this than I've ever made from the money I've saved in my life. Guess I'm filling out the tax form to get some of this back. Multiple years of savings down the toilet, thanks for everything PEB.

Still bleeding.. I saw it coming too. Always seem to buy in right at the end of the rises.. and selling right at the end of the falls. Why do I do this.

[GR8DAY]

All I can say is that you should always have a buy out price regardless.. I bought in at $1.. rode it all the way to 1.70 or so, then the crash happened. Didn't realize just how bad it was.
Watched it drop under what I bought it for, thought about selling but didn't. Held on to the hopes it would eventually turn around, sixty cents.. now if it only goes up a bit I'll sell.. 50, 40.. 30.. 24.. I've had enough. I've lost more on this than I've ever made from the money I've saved in my life. Guess I'm filling out the tax form to get some of this back. Multiple years of savings down the toilet, thanks for everything PEB.

Still bleeding.. I saw it coming too. Always seem to buy in right at the end of the rises.. and selling right at the end of the falls. Why do I do this.

Your not alone Ryrynz..........there wouldnt be a person on this site that hasnt also done just that! I personally made some reasonable money out of PEB as it went ballistic however I also remember selling out at one stage and the very next day those same share were worth $45k more than I sold for!! That was pretty painful at the time but I look back now and have a chuckle to myself. Thank God it was only money.

[blackcap]

Your not alone Ryrynz..........there wouldnt be a person on this site that hasnt also done just that! I personally made some reasonable money out of PEB as it went ballistic however I also remember selling out at one stage and the very next day those same share were worth $45k more than I sold for!! That was pretty painful at the time but I look back now and have a chuckle to myself. Thank God it was only money.

I hope TJ managed to get out when he said he was thinking about exiting. Looks like the death spiral is well and truly in effect. If it gets in the 10's and rights issue will be so discounted that current shareholders will never get their money back even if they do succeed eventually. Rather sad story all round for what has been a promising company, and raises a lot more questions than it answers but Balance has said enough about this. Shame that this kind of thing can still happen in NZ post 2000. The FMA and NZX need to do more to offer transparency and trust.

[BigBob]

I hope TJ managed to get out when he said he was thinking about exiting. Looks like the death spiral is well and truly in effect. If it gets in the 10's and rights issue will be so discounted that current shareholders will never get their money back even if they do succeed eventually. Rather sad story all round for what has been a promising company, and raises a lot more questions than it answers but Balance has said enough about this. Shame that this kind of thing can still happen in NZ post 2000. The FMA and NZX need to do more to offer transparency and trust.

If we disregard the accusations of them deliberately misleading the market and any malicious wrong-doing, it seems that management and board are quite simply out of their depth or a bunch of totally incompetent bumbling fools.

Basically they are gambling the company and shareholders' money on two decisions (Kaiser and LCD) that in their own words are not in their control...!

The fact that management and board have allowed it to come to this simply beggars belief.

They should have developed and executed a realistic plan B years ago. I doubt that they have ever had one, other than to go to the market for ever more cash. And this even as plan Z is becoming less and less feasible as time and money slips away...

[Sgt Pepper]

If we disregard the accusations of them deliberately misleading the market and any malicious wrong-doing, it seems that management and board are quite simply out of their depth or a bunch of totally incompetent bumbling fools.

Basically they are gambling the company and shareholders' money on two decisions (Kaiser and LCD) that in their own words are not in their control...!

The fact that management and board have allowed it to come to this simply beggars belief.

They should have developed and executed a realistic plan B years ago. I doubt that they have ever had one, other than to go to the market for ever more cash. And this even as plan Z is becoming less and less feasible as time and money slips away...

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

meaning(idiomatic)" to suddenly lose a contest one seemed very likely to win, especially through mistakes or bad judgement"

Basically describes the downward spiral of PEB, in retrospect was this inevitable? Looking back I did note some concern when a large shareholder sold out at $1.50. But perhaps we all got caught up in the prospect of " $100million US dream that was promoted. Sad thing this will put future investors off any tech stock start up which may actually have good prospects. Very sad andI feel for the investors who have lost serious money.

[Ryrynz]

IMO they should never have attempted pushing this product themselves, should've flogged the tech off to another company and made a percentage off every sale.

[Balance]

Sp action suggests that the institutions have broken rank?

Looks like one or two of the big institutional shareholders who were sucked into underwriting the multiple capital raisings have had enough - several tens of millions of shares looking for a home.

[Ninefingers]

All I can say is that you should always have a buy out price regardless.. I bought in at $1.. rode it all the way to 1.70 or so, then the crash happened. Didn't realize just how bad it was.
Watched it drop under what I bought it for, thought about selling but didn't. Held on to the hopes it would eventually turn around, sixty cents.. now if it only goes up a bit I'll sell.. 50, 40.. 30.. 24.. I've had enough. I've lost more on this than I've ever made from the money I've saved in my life. Guess I'm filling out the tax form to get some of this back. Multiple years of savings down the toilet, thanks for everything PEB.

Still bleeding.. I saw it coming too. Always seem to buy in right at the end of the rises.. and selling right at the end of the falls. Why do I do this.

That's tough man, I bought in at $1.50...then $1, then $.72...this was all early on in my share investing career and I was definitely letting emotion get in the way. I sold half of my holding at 55c and am still scratching my head as to why I didn't sell the whole lot, I suppose I have some sick glimmer of hope that they're going to pull something out of the bag that keeps me in, although I know it is an impossible road to profitability now. Stupid emotions eh. The only saving grace is while I was foolishly chasing this down I was buying A2 shares as well.

[Snow Leopard]

...several tens of millions of shares looking for a home.

Would that be like the PEB's 'several tens of thousands of tests' now ?

[Ryrynz]

I'm trying to sell at 24, while the shares have dropped they're holding and the trades have been small.. This several tens of millions of shares that Bal said is likely coming up..
Does this mean this is about to tank? Do I just take the 21 cents and run for the hills? Can't see how anyone is going to fund this further.. no doubt they'll be after more cash.. but who's going to pony up for it? Looks like everyone is getting out. Sign of death?


That's tough man

Yeah, this is pretty bad. This and Snakk..Ugh.

[Leftfield]

I'm trying to sell at 24......
Yeah, this is pretty bad. This and Snakk..Ugh.

Gotta say, there was heaps of warnings on this site. Learn from this, and DON"T buy on the down trends. GLH.

[Balance]

Would that be like the PEB's 'several tens of thousands of tests' now ?

Those were considered swear words by some posters, but I guess they probably wished they took heed of how devious the company and some of its directors were with their PR releases and utterances to the market, official and unofficial.

[Timesurfer]

Gotta say, there was heaps of warnings on this site. Learn from this, and DON"T buy on the down trends. GLH.

I bought in 2 days before their annual presentation at 0.33 -- then I discovered the warnings on this site!
The morning of the presentation things looked a little shakey so I jumped taking a .02 hit.
That was a pretty cheap lesson looking back!
Thanks for the warnings.

[Balance]

Sp action suggests that the institutions have broken rank?

Looks like one or two of the big institutional shareholders who were sucked into underwriting the multiple capital raisings have had enough - several tens of millions of shares looking for a home.

Here are the big ones (oops, institutions) in PEB:

Smartshares Limited 20.6m shares

Harbour Asset Management Limited and First NZ Capital Securities Limited 72.7m shares

AMP Capital Investors (New Zealand) Limited 25.6m shares

Salt Funds Management Limited 55.7m shares

Devon Funds Management Limited 19m shares (below 5% last disclosure so could be gone by now)

BT Funds Management (NZ) Limited 34.5m shares

K One W One Limited 19.8m shares

247.9m shares = 53% of the company.

Then there's the Masfens etc etc.

WHICH ARE THE LAST ONES BRAVE ENOUGH TO TAKE ON ANY OF THE INSTITUTIONAL: SELLER(S) ??????????

[kiwidollabill]

IMO they should never have attempted pushing this product themselves, should've flogged the tech off to another company and made a percentage off every sale.

THIS!!!

Why they have chosen this pathway puzzles me. Moreover, why do they feel the need to do the physical testing themselves? Would be feasible to get LabCorp or one of the other US diagnostics providers to do so. Being a 'lab' company (which is similar to operating a factory) and a health diagnostics company are two different beasts.

I wonder if the current board have entertained this... it'd be the biggest lever to cut costs but would smell of desparation and push the sp further south.

[silverblizzard888]

IMO they should never have attempted pushing this product themselves, should've flogged the tech off to another company and made a percentage off every sale.

Actually if you read up on the backstory of the company and how it came to sell its own product, it was because they tried to sell this to the big companies but wasn't getting the offer they wanted, so they thought to themselves, they have taken it so far, so might as well take it a bit further and sell it too. Little did they know it wouldn't be as straight forward. Probably the fault of a mother trying to convince the world their babies not ugly.

[Balance]

Actually if you read up on the backstory of the company and how it came to sell its own product, it was because they tried to sell this to the big companies but wasn't getting the offer they wanted, so they thought to themselves, they have taken it so far, so might as well take it a bit further and sell it too. Little did they know it wouldn't be as straight forward. Probably the fault of a mother trying to convince the world their babies not ugly.

The company tried to break the mold but looks like will be broken itself.

Sp below 20c.

[Ggcc]

The company tried to break the mold but looks like will be broken itself.

Sp below 20c.
I will give you credit where it is due. If this company goes under you have saved people who listened loads of money.

If this company became successful, which I hope for All stakeholders, you would also praise the company. So far though, you have not been wrong, but I am still hoping.

[Balance]

The company tried to break the mold but looks like will be broken itself.

Sp below 20c.

Share price back to 2012 - when all the hype started.

Will we see 15c soon?

That will be the realistic level for one of the big shareholders to quit their tens of millions of shares before the next capital raising hits.

[silu]

The company tried to break the mold but looks like will be broken itself.

Sp below 20c.

20c may sound cheap but this still means the MC is over $90m with revenues of $3.4m. We are not even close to bottom unless something drastic happens.

[silverblizzard888]

The company tried to break the mold but looks like will be broken itself.

Sp below 20c.

Even at the current price I struggle to find any value in the company. Perhaps the intellectual property is worth something, but the longer PEB fail to sell this the more proof that the product is hard to sell and any big company running the ruler over this will be thinking about the extra expenses they have to put in to make this workout. You have to remember they don't own all the property either, they actually get a license for some of the bio markers. They sure might be experts at testing piss, but they haven't diagnosed the piss they have taken out of their shareholders. No idea whats even supporting up the share price at these levels anyone buying these shares at this level should be investing in brain scans.

[Schrodinger]

Even at the current price I struggle to find any value in the company. Perhaps the intellectual property is worth something, but the longer PEB fail to sell this the more proof that the product is hard to sell and any big company running the ruler over this will be thinking about the extra expenses they have to put in to make this workout. You have to remember they don't own all the property either, they actually get a license for some of the bio markers. They sure might be experts at testing piss, but they haven't diagnosed the piss they have taken out of their shareholders. No idea whats even supporting up the share price at these levels anyone buying these shares at this level should be investing in brain scans.

Disposal price on assets would be brutal. Labs + machine might be saleable - IP NFI!. MCap prob nearer $10-$20M if Im generous (4-5c).

[Lola]

Disposal price on assets would be brutal. Labs + machine might be saleable - IP NFI!. MCap prob nearer $10-$20M if Im generous (4-5c).

I would hope the dog with a bone compliance dept at NZX have been pounding this company with questions about the accuracy of past continuous disclosure notices.

[silverblizzard888]

Disposal price on assets would be brutal. Labs + machine might be saleable - IP NFI!. MCap prob nearer $10-$20M if Im generous (4-5c).

Well for the comfort of existing shareholders, on a fair and unbiased analysis, they do have 16 million in cash, they only need to reduce expenses by a small margin to survive another year, which is quite doable even for fiddle-dum and fiddle-de. On the balance of probabilities I do view them as being able to survive at least 2 years, but 90 million Mcap is still too high no matter how anyone puts it. I'd probably take a punt at 20 million Mcap this year given the chances they could break even and assuming honest financial accounts.

P.s I did take a punt on Belgium winning the football world cup so perhaps not the wisest man out of the three.....

[Ninefingers]

Look at her bounce! :confused:

[silverblizzard888]

Look at her bounce! :confused:

Jumped on technicals, technically it was oversold but fundamentally still doesn't hold up for the long run.

[Hectorplains]

Look at her bounce! :confused:

https://steemitimages.com/DQmWyQRqYKTL6yypagRhoKC34wKwXAJgtoG2KPoqGZKxeWc/deadcatbounce.png

[Balance]

Look at her bounce! :confused:

What bounce?

Down 40% since 1 May 2018, and 60% in the last 12 months.

[Balance]

I think it is time someone got a life.

Poor ole Tsuba.

That was when PEB's sp was 35 cents.

When you are down at closer to the bottom, you can admire the peaks better?

[silverblizzard888]

Poor ole Tsuba.

That was when PEB's sp was 35 cents.

When you are down at closer to the bottom, you can admire the peaks better?

More like when you’re in hole and anything closer to the surface looks nice

[Balance]

Spoke to an ex-executive of one of the big international pharmaceutical companies.

He was totally scathing of the accounting 'trickery' used by PEB to inflate sales (and obviously, inflate profits or in this case, lower losses) to impress the market and investors to put in ever more capital to burn.

Now that's nothing new as similar sentiments have been expressed since PEB announced the write-offs of receivables and the change in accounting policies to recognise revenues.

What is new (to me anyway) is that he said ICP Bio (blast from the past listed NZX biomed stock) also used accounting trickery to obtain capital and funding from the market - ICP Bio would record revenues from 'sale or return' product consignments to customers and in several instances, even to its partly owned overseas affiliates! History records that ICP Bio went broke and its assets were sold for scrap value.

History tells us a lot if but we care to learn.

[winner69]

Spoke to an ex-executive of one of the big international pharmaceutical companies.

He was totally scathing of the accounting 'trickery' used by PEB to inflate sales (and obviously, inflate profits or in this case, lower losses) to impress the market and investors to put in ever more capital to burn.

Now that's nothing new as similar sentiments have been expressed since PEB announced the write-offs of receivables and the change in accounting policies to recognise revenues.

What is new (to me anyway) is that he said ICP Bio (blast from the past listed NZX biomed stock) also used accounting trickery to obtain capital and funding from the market - ICP Bio would record revenues from 'sale or return' product consignments to customers and in several instances, even to its partly owned overseas affiliates! History records that ICP Bio went broke and its assets were sold for scrap value.

History tells us a lot if but we care to learn.


it was plain to see BEFORE they announced the writeoffs wasn't it Balance


I remember a few dedicated followers trying to tell me once that real sales were what was reported as revenues PLUS what was in trade receivables. They would have got an even biggershock how poor sales really were

[hardt]

https://youtu.be/atDQS30WHxQ

It was one of those screaming shorts you get once every so often, I was just scared of that one solid announcement that could kill me no matter how small the chances.




FY15

FY16

FY17

1H18










PRODUCT REVENUE

1,899

4,976

8,062

4,225










RECEIPTS FROM CUSTOMERS + GRANTS

1,184

3,648

4,616

1,880



- GRANT REVENUE

-1,110

-1,281

-1,105

-538










RECEIVABLES

2,584

5,730

6,519

8,027



BAD DEBTS

xx

xx

-2,635

-674



DOUBTFUL DEBTS

xx

xx

-613

-752

[Balance]

https://lancewiggs.com/2016/10/25/what-can-we-learn-from-wynyards-voluntary-administration/

That graph interested me and I thought I would do a quick think what PEB's would look like...
(along side my forecast which hopefully I will be able to revise upward dramatically after a soon to be released update ;), ignore the yellow, this is the parts I filled in)

8405

How scary is this?

Forsyth Barr forecast 2017 operating revenues of $16.1m way back in October 2016.

The company reported $9.5m in May 2017 - 41% lower than forecast. Then, in May 2018, the figure was adjusted for non-sales to $4.7m - 70% less than Forbar forecast.

Share price then was 48c - so sp now should be 14c, all things being equal.

And that's not accounting for the dilutionary effect of the 2 capital raise in 2017!

[Balance]

These little bits of good news certainly do add up and reassure us that PEB is continuing to head in the right direction but, yes, it's the results of the KP trial and CMS approval that will be the confirmation we really want.

Might be 2017 before we get them though, so more patience required before more patients can get the benefit of this great technology.

In the meantime, a few more dollars will be dropping into the PEB tin. Hopefully, that will save us and some cynical non-holders on here from having to worry too much on our behalf about the next cap raising.

I'm looking forward to the half year report and I guess that's only a little over 4 weeks away....

Looks like the little bits of good news were little lollies for the believers, designed to keep them sweet for the bitter medicinal next capital raise in Feb 2017 and then, Oct 2017?

"Might be 2017' proved to be way too optimistic as it's now 2018 and DD & PEB advised 'progress is being made', after giving the big thumbs up in September 2016 that 'we are well down the track with Kaiser Permanente.'

Down the track obviously has a different meaning to DD and PEB? :D

You must be glad there's a few cynical non-holders here keeping the company honest and saving many newbies from losing money?

:D :D :D

[Balance]

https://soundcloud.com/nbr-radio/pacific-edge-says-its-close-to-key-sales-breakthroughs

Just a month away from a breakthrough with one or two of transformative customers!

[kiwidollabill]

Spoke to an ex-executive of one of the big international pharmaceutical companies. <br>
<br>He was totally scathing of the accounting 'trickery' used by PEB to inflate sales (and obviously, inflate profits or in this case, lower losses) to impress the market and investors to put in ever more capital to burn. <br>
<br>Now that's nothing new as similar sentiments have been expressed since PEB announced the write-offs of receivables and the change in accounting policies to recognise revenues. <br>
<br>What is new (to me anyway) is that he said ICP Bio (blast from the past listed NZX biomed stock) also used accounting trickery to obtain capital and funding from the market - ICP Bio would record revenues from 'sale or return' product consignments to customers and in several instances, even to its partly owned overseas affiliates! History records that ICP Bio went broke and its assets were sold for scrap value.<br>
<br>History tells us a lot if but we care to learn.<br><br>"If one does not learn from history, they are doomed to repeat it..."<br><br>I went into the old ICP Bio some years back.&nbsp; The production area is far far smaller than the the building they have.&nbsp; Pity they couldnt make it work, big market for NZ BSA - Proliant (and others) are the ones now capitalising on this market opportunity

[Sgt Pepper]

<br><br>"If one does not learn from history, they are doomed to repeat it..."<br><br>I went into the old ICP Bio some years back.&nbsp; The production area is far far smaller than the the building they have.&nbsp; Pity they couldnt make it work, big market for NZ BSA - Proliant (and others) are the ones now capitalising on this market opportunity

I am intrigued about the SP increase this week
Is it ramping, misplaced optimism, conviction buying in anticipation of take over, or is good news on the horizon??
time will tell.
Disc : not a shareholder and do not intend to be one.

[whatsup]

PEB, " appears " to be off its recent lows !!

[Ninefingers]

Is it still the dead cat bounce, or something more sustained?

[silverblizzard888]

I am intrigued about the SP increase this week
Is it ramping, misplaced optimism, conviction buying in anticipation of take over, or is good news on the horizon??
time will tell.
Disc : not a shareholder and do not intend to be one.

Well considering one investment report I read has a price target of 75 cents and a outperform rating I would says anyone reading it would be influenced and take a possible punt at it. I don't agree with it, but doesn't mean there won't be people who see it as a opportunity.

[Xerof]

There is always a fresh new wave of bright eyed investors who come along and invest into what Brokers recommend.

They don't all read ST, nor have a view of the prior history of non-achievement of targets, that crusty old buggars like us have.

In fact some who might do some research might even say, hell, it's taken so long to get to the starting line that SURELY it's just around the next corner, and at these levels it's a screaming buy

DYOR, not advice either way.

[Dentie]

There is always a fresh new wave of bright eyed investors who come along and invest into what Brokers recommend.

They don't all read ST, nor have a view of the prior history of non-achievement of targets, that crusty old buggars like us have.

In fact some who might do some research might even say, hell, it's taken so long to get to the starting line that SURELY it's just around the next corner, and at these levels it's a screaming buy

DYOR, not advice either way.

Yes, the "non-achievement of targets" has been a multi year problem alright, but for how many more years will some "crusty old bugg(e)rs" use this as an excuse to down ramp and try to crucify the hopefully eventual success of a suite of products which have clearly proven to be leading edge and best in class??

Some might even suggest this continual unjustified down ramping and rubbishing over the past few years amounts to commercial treason....while others may suggest it is simply an ongoing tirade by self appointed experts who just can't accept they got it wrong and are no cleverer than the rest of us. Either way, I couldn't care less because I take responsibility for my own research and decision making. The difference is, if I get it wrong - I don't bore the crap out of other posters by bleating on here about company announcements that are now years old.

For the record, I think it was a mistake going into the US market - especially so early. To me, the only reason the targets haven't been achieved is due to the regulatory processes of the US health system (incl. crusty old Urologists) which are so cumbersome and time consuming - they only serve to suck the cash out of the balance sheet. But, (like a lot of others) PEB were attracted by the size of the US market and dived into it...so they have to suck it up and be part of the "iterative process".

If KP and the CMS comes through - before the cash runs out - then I'm sure it will end well. If not........

[blackcap]

For the record, I think it was a mistake going into the US market - especially so early. To me, the only reason the targets haven't been achieved is due to the regulatory processes of the US health system (incl. crusty old Urologists) which are so cumbersome and time consuming - they only serve to suck the cash out of the balance sheet. .

I would differ from this point of view. Yes you are right the US health system is cumbersome and time consuming. But that is not the reason that PEB have not achieved targets. You cannot blame someone else. The reason PEB have not achieved targets (and using interseting accounting methods to hide real revenues) is that they failed to identify that the US health system is cumbersome, or they just ignored it and thought everything would be ok.
The issue for me is not whether they will make it someday or not. The trust is long gone.

[winner69]

Strangely there hasnt been a positive announcement so far this month. The good old ‘Dave, put something out there. As long as it sounds positive just announce something’ trick maybe had its day

But I have that feeling when a BIG announcement is about to be made ...I feel it in my bones

Is this week the week?

[whatsup]

.26 and holding.

[When the bass drops]

It's a great time to buy more shares. Go for it!

[Minerbarejet]

When the time comes that KP and CMS finally declare their intentions one way or the other I will be expecting apologies from them for the amount of time taken to make these decisions.
It is not right that a company should be held to ransom like this and I would be expecting full settlement for all tests conducted to date regardless of the outcome.
They are not handing out freebies.
A simple straightforward question: If PEB intended to hand out freebies as described on this unbalanced forum why would they bill them and have them end up as receivables.
I might be permitted to suggest that the intent was to get paid for every test conducted.
Whether that is the outcome is in the hands of the recipients of the tests.
You can go on all you like about this but the fact remains that PEB is owed lots and its time they coughed up.
Now, preferably.

[Dentie]

When the time comes that KP and CMS finally declare their intentions one way or the other I will be expecting apologies from them for the amount of time taken to make these decisions.
It is not right that a company should be held to ransom like this and I would be expecting full settlement for all tests conducted to date regardless of the outcome.
They are not handing out freebies.
A simple straightforward question: If PEB intended to hand out freebies as described on this unbalanced forum why would they bill them and have them end up as receivables.
I might be permitted to suggest that the intent was to get paid for every test conducted.
Whether that is the outcome is in the hands of the recipients of the tests.
You can go on all you like about this but the fact remains that PEB is owed lots and its time they coughed up.
Now, preferably.

They won't Miner....as we are learning, it is the way they do business over there. They are great at doing "deals" but only if it is "fairly" in their favour and only when they can "dominate" the transaction......as the rest of the world is now becoming aware!

[whatsup]

They won't Miner....as we are learning, it is the way they do business over there. They are great at doing "deals" but only if it is "fairly" in their favour and only when they can "dominate" the transaction......as the rest of the world is now becoming aware!

Dentie, Im not sure if you went to the last briefing at the Auckland Club a couple of months ago, I asked the question " how important was this transaction to the U S companies"? answer , so so and I also asked , "how many decision makers were we talking to", answer one or two, take from that what you like but imo PEB was/is not too high up on their list of things to do.

[Balance]

Dentie, Im not sure if you went to the last briefing at the Auckland Club a couple of months ago, I asked the question " how important was this transaction to the U S companies"? answer , so so and I also asked , "how many decision makers were we talking to", answer one or two, take from that what you like but imo PEB was/is not too high up on their list of things to do.

By PEB's own commentary, they have converted 2 of the 4 'transformative' companies with KP and CMS to go.

Why are KP and CMS so very very very important?

PEB has been selling hype and hope to fund its largely unsuccessful commercialization startegy in the US - dare I say very successfully - but the evidence to date is that it was all a pack of hype and truth be known, accounting trickery.

[When the bass drops]

When the time comes that KP and CMS finally declare their intentions one way or the other I will be expecting apologies from them for the amount of time taken to make these decisions.
It is not right that a company should be held to ransom like this and I would be expecting full settlement for all tests conducted to date regardless of the outcome.
They are not handing out freebies.
A simple straightforward question: If PEB intended to hand out freebies as described on this unbalanced forum why would they bill them and have them end up as receivables.
I might be permitted to suggest that the intent was to get paid for every test conducted.
Whether that is the outcome is in the hands of the recipients of the tests.
You can go on all you like about this but the fact remains that PEB is owed lots and its time they coughed up.
Now, preferably.

Totally resonate with all that. This is consistent with whatsup's comment that the PEB deal is not high up on their list of things to do (I have said this in recent comments and it's consistent with private discussions I've had with other holders); In light of this reality, I'm not giving Kaiser a nice olive branch anymore, atleast until they stop slow-walking PEB.

[When the bass drops]

By PEB's own commentary, they have converted 2 of the 4 'transformative' companies with KP and CMS to go.

Why are KP and CMS so very very very important?

PEB has been selling hype and hope to fund its largely unsuccessful commercialization startegy in the US - dare I say very successfully - but the evidence to date is that it was all a pack of hype and truth be known, accounting trickery.

And you honestly believe the Kaiser deal particularly will be no further along even in 2 years from now, because DD is just stringing us all along into a black hole? It's all just puffery is it.

[Balance]

And you honestly believe the Kaiser deal particularly will be no further along even in 2 years from now, because DD is just stringing us all along into a black hole? It's all just puffery is it.

Ye fountain of all knowledge, what do you think?

On CMS :

https://stocknessmonster.com/announc...eb.nzx-280365/

Update almost exactly the same as the one in April 2016!

April 2018 - On CMS - "We are well down the track."

April 2017 - On CMS - "Pleasingly, we are well down the track on this!"

April 2016 - On CMS - "Pleasingly, we are well down the track on this process!"

But wait, there's more!

There is this in November 2015 (2015) - On CMS - "We are progressing well in our discussions ..."

[Minerbarejet]

Interesting reaction.
An ad hominem attack and pretty rude to boot.

[Baa_Baa]

You'd have to be blind Freddy to have not noticed that this listing is on the never never, and adept at keeping their deep pocket supporters comfortable - if not somewhat concerned as the years go by.

One day it might make good, it'll will be obvious in the SP charts, until then or maybe never, it is a sinkhole for investors funds.

Balance is right, until he/she is wrong. Painful as the monotonous commentary may be to some.

Better imho to be on the outside looking in, than the inside looking out. It helps with being objective about things that are losing shareholders heaps of money. The nimble will be on board faster than you can say 'success', but not before then.

[Hectorplains]

I'm not giving Kaiser a nice olive branch anymore.

Really, do you think they care a scintilla about your olive branch? As for expectations of apologies by Mr D ... If PEB has been 'held to ransom' why then have they not gone legal in response? It's obvious, really.

[Minerbarejet]

Really, do you think they care a scintilla about your olive branch? As for expectations of apologies by Mr D ... If PEB has been 'held to ransom' why then have they not gone legal in response? It's obvious, really.
I was expecting an apology from KP and CMS not DD.
That would be a really bright move - sueing an outfit in the middle of negotiating a deal with them. Should go down well.

[kiwidollabill]

I was expecting an apology from KP and CMS not DD.
That would be a really bright move - sueing an outfit in the middle of negotiating a deal with them. Should go down well.

You are expecting an apology from KP? A company with $64B in rev, to apologise to a minnow like PEB because things havent panned out line the told everyone it was going to....wow...

[minimoke]

You are expecting an apology from KP? A company with $64B in rev, to apologise to a minnow like PEB because things havent panned out line the told everyone it was going to....wow...I think ( I really hope) it was a tongue in cheek post

[Dentie]

Dentie, Im not sure if you went to the last briefing at the Auckland Club a couple of months ago, I asked the question " how important was this transaction to the U S companies"? answer , so so and I also asked , "how many decision makers were we talking to", answer one or two, take from that what you like but imo PEB was/is not too high up on their list of things to do.
Yes I was there and was relieved to hear Chris Gallagher answering the questions honestly. I also spent a bit of time talking with Director...David Levison. https://www.pmwcintl.com/david-levison-2018sv/.

You would have noted he is from the US and you would no doubt be aware he and his company have recently walked the exact same pathway that PEB has been trying to walk for the past few years. He endorsed what the Board is doing and confirmed he had to endure exactly the same sloth like red tape process that we are currently experiencing.

I think the more pertinent question is "why?". Instead of eternal persecution of people who are doing their best to navigate a ridiculous process....provide those people with the panacea to success.😉

[whatsup]

28.5 goodie

[Balance]

28.5 goodie

30 June not that far off. :D

[Ryrynz]

Then what, it dives down again?

[whatsup]

Then what, it dives down again?

Hardly a dive

[Balance]

Then what, it dives down again?

Have a look at the sp chart over the last 3 years, paying particularly notice to 31 March and 30 June, and tell us what you think.

[Tsuba]

My apologies for being a smart ass.

[Balance]

Window dressing in full swing now - they will try to close the sp at 32c or 33c on Friday - 32c being the last underwritten price at which they swallowed most of the stock so their portfolio don't look bad.

:D :D :D

[drcjp]

Have a look at the sp chart over the last 3 years, paying particularly notice to 31 March and 30 June, and tell us what you think.

That it should be around 3c by Oct which is where it belongs imo.

[Balance]

Window dressing in full swing now - they will try to close the sp at 32c or 33c on Friday - 32c being the last underwritten price at which they swallowed most of the stock so their portfolio don't look bad.

:D :D :D

Underwriting shareholders must be disappointed one of them broke rank and sold the shares back down to 29c after all the hard work getting it back up to 30c this afternoon?

Watch the action tomorrow - be very interesting to see if one or more of them will take the opportunity to offload at the window-dressed levels - can always buy back next few weeks at a nice free-carry margin. :D

[Balance]

The big institutions in PEB:

Smartshares Limited 20.6m shares

Harbour Asset Management Limited and First NZ Capital Securities Limited 72.7m shares

AMP Capital Investors (New Zealand) Limited 25.6m shares

Salt Funds Management Limited 55.7m shares

Devon Funds Management Limited 19m shares (below 5% last disclosure so could be gone by now)

BT Funds Management (NZ) Limited 34.5m shares

K One W One Limited 19.8m shares

247.9m shares = 53% of the company.


****************

Every cent they can increase on PEB's sp = +$2.47m in performance on their 30 June 2018 portfolio.

Window dressing, it used to be called.

These days, the NZX and FMA decree that such behaviour is conviction top-ups? :D

[trader_jackson]

About 2 and a half years ago (either oct or nov 2015) I said I would give PEB 2 years to deliver something.

That something, mainly Kaiser Permanente & CMS, has not been delivered, despite my generosity in giving them another half year.

I am not sure what is going on, but I feel this should have been delivered.

PEB is the only share that is in the red (although has always been a low single digit percentage of the portfolio) and the only share on the dozen or two I have commented on sharetrader I seem to have been seriously out of step with.

It is unfortunate... I don't want to sell because it should be a success... maybe one day it will, but as far as my conclusions go, it has not been a success... the 'now or never' phase is passing, if not already passed, and every day that goes by is a step closer to the grave yard, joining the likes of WYN, CBL and PPL - previous bigly growth companies that just couldn't make it work (for various, and yes quite different, reasons)

I intend to remove myself from the share register in due course.


After 4 or so years of being on the share register, I can now confirm I have removed myself, taking a total hit of around 60%.
As with any speculative investment, PEB was only a small part of the portfolio so I am not concerned (pleasingly the only investment where I have lost money). However, I was hoping that small part (~2%) would grow bigly to be a large(er) part - not shrink to become an even smaller part.

I do wish PEB and its shareholders all the very best.

[winner69]

After 4 or so years of being on the share register, I can now confirm I have removed myself, taking a total hit of around 60%.
As with any speculative investment, PEB was only a small part of the portfolio - I was hoping that small part (2%) would grow bigly to be a large(er) part - not shrink to become an even smaller part.

I do wish PEB and its shareholders all the very best.

Bigly news next week mate and ..........

But you must feel a sense of relief after all these years

[Balance]

Bigly news next week mate and ..........

But you must feel a sense of relief after all these years

Must feel like a festering pus-filled boil which he has finally lanced?

[When the bass drops]

After 4 or so years of being on the share register, I can now confirm I have removed myself, taking a total hit of around 60%.
As with any speculative investment, PEB was only a small part of the portfolio so I am not concerned (pleasingly the only investment where I have lost money). However, I was hoping that small part (~2%) would grow bigly to be a large(er) part - not shrink to become an even smaller part.

I do wish PEB and its shareholders all the very best.

Sorry to hear you pulled out of PEB prematurely (in my view) but you have your reasons.

[When the bass drops]

The majority of investors will come in and out of a stock, at their own discretion. They may use the advice of posters on here as merely a push in a direction they were always going to go.

When it comes down to it, I'm not happy with the pace in which things have been tracking with this company, however I still believe it is worth holding my position at this stage.

This is in part due to when I got into the stock; maybe if I got in 10 years ago I would have an altered view. It's reasonable to assume at some point they will get a commercial deal put in place, so I'm willing to wait.

[minimoke]

The majority of investors will come in and out of a stock, at their own discretion. They may use the advice of posters on here as merely a push in a direction they were always going to go.

When it comes down to it, I'm not happy with the pace in which things have been tracking with this company, however I still believe it is worth holding my position at this stage.

This is in part due to when I got into the stock; maybe if I got in 10 years ago I would have an altered view. It's reasonable to assume at some point they will get a commercial deal put in place, so I'm willing to wait.Of course everyone is entitled to their own approach. But I really struggle with this Buy and Pray approach. Why wouldn't you sell at some point in the down trend, preserve capital and buy back in when the trend reverses. for every 10% you loose you got to make more just to get back to break even.

There aren't even any dividends to soften the pain

[winner69]

The majority of investors will come in and out of a stock, at their own discretion. They may use the advice of posters on here as merely a push in a direction they were always going to go.

When it comes down to it, I'm not happy with the pace in which things have been tracking with this company, however I still believe it is worth holding my position at this stage.

This is in part due to when I got into the stock; maybe if I got in 10 years ago I would have an altered view. It's reasonable to assume at some point they will get a commercial deal put in place, so I'm willing to wait.

In David’s mind CX... has already been ‘successfully commercialised’

[Balance]

In David’s mind CX... has already been ‘successfully commercialised’

But after 5 years, still in the early stages of commercialization!

Need more $$$$ in other words to fund his overseas travels and salary. :D

[whatsup]

But after 5 years, still in the early stages of commercialization!

Need more $$$$ in other words to fund his overseas travels and salary. :D

+ + WOW 1100 PAGES of discussion on PEB and no real income yet, we are a patent lot !

[When the bass drops]

Of course everyone is entitled to their own approach. But I really struggle with this Buy and Pray approach. Why wouldn't you sell at some point in the down trend, preserve capital and buy back in when the trend reverses. for every 10% you loose you got to make more just to get back to break even.

There aren't even any dividends to soften the pain

That's a fair question. The best way I can put it is that there is a difference between a share investor and a share trader. As a share investor, I have next to no interest in making short sells or offloading a material portion of my stock at a certain price, with the belief it will fall 30%, and then buy it back again. As a share investor, as I put it, my hold in a stock like a PEB, WDT, BLT is a long term position. It's not high up on my priority list to BUY/SELL my stock based on an inherent belief of where the price might end up, in the short term.

I have private views on where the price will likely end up in the long term, but I'll keep those close to my chest for now.

[minimoke]

That's a fair question. The best way I can put it is that there is a difference between a share investor and a share trader. As a share investor, I have next to no interest in making short sells or offloading a material portion of my stock at a certain price, with the belief it will fall 30%, and then buy it back again. As a share investor, as I put it, my hold in a stock like a PEB, WDT, BLT is a long term position. It's not high up on my priority list to BUY/SELL my stock based on an inherent belief of where the price might end up, in the short term.

I have private views on where the price will likely end up in the long term, but I'll keep those close to my chest for now.I'd describe myself as an investor as well - certainly not a trader. But I am very conscious of my capital and preserving it. I buy for the long term - but I expect to see at least some growth in the short term. If there isn't any short term growth there is no point buying - I would wait until the growth stated happening. I'df my capital is eroded to a certain level (eg my recent holding in HBL) I don't see any point in retaining faith - that is an emotion. As an investor I prefer to let the numbers speak for themselves. Helps take the emotion out of it.

[Balance]

Window dressing day dawns for PEB?

Where every 1c increase provides $2.48m additional performance for the funds stuck in there with no way out as the clock ticks down towards the cash running out.

But wait!

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/320131/281982.pdf

"We believe that we have the right strategy, the right people to execute that strategy and we are well ahead of any expected competition."

Never mind the fact that PEB is running a one man's race towards oblivion.

Notice PEB still uses the dodgy revenue increase and lab throughput numbers to showcase their 'progress'?

[whatsup]

The biggee question from todays ann to my mind is , " will the C R be before Xmas or after ? "

[whatsup]

The biggee question from todays ann to my mind is , " will the C R be before Xmas or after ? "

and the second question will be , " what are the terms ? "

[minimoke]

This is sounding like the old Martin Jet pack announcements.

For example "We will continue to seek the regulatory and commercial agreements required to operate effectivelyin the US". I would have thought this was kinda step one. Surely you cant hope to sell until you at the very least have the regulatory boxes ticked. Just like MJP - could figure out if it was a plane or a bird and couldn't get regulatory approval.

Also sounds like the are back to the beginning ""We are moving our focus to large institutional healthcare organisations, which may take longer tobring on board"

In essence a product with no regulatory approval and no market with a still unknown timeframe.

[When the bass drops]

I'd describe myself as an investor as well - certainly not a trader. But I am very conscious of my capital and preserving it. I buy for the long term - but I expect to see at least some growth in the short term. If there isn't any short term growth there is no point buying - I would wait until the growth stated happening. I'df my capital is eroded to a certain level (eg my recent holding in HBL) I don't see any point in retaining faith - that is an emotion. As an investor I prefer to let the numbers speak for themselves. Helps take the emotion out of it.

That's a sound point too. I probably should have expanded my earlier point, in that what is considered a share trader and what is considered a share investor are both wide spectrums.

A significant minority of holders of PEB had a long term approach in mind when buying in, considering the potential difficulties around successfully selling into the US market, and that it would take an unknown amount of time. I would have a stab that many of these investors had PEB as a high speculative risk hold (small in their portfolio), mostly likely bought a fixed amount which has remained constant (bar the rights issues), and follow the stock once a week to see where progress is at. There will likely be some investors who, when the price dipped below 30 cents, thought they would up their position because, why not. Equally those who didn't budge when it briefly dropped down to 19.5 cents and were not fazed by where the price was, because the strategy was always to hold their 250,000 shares (for eg) to beyond the point where the company was selling to the big US groups.

And yes, there are those who intended to hold long-term, but with caveats such as the price not dropping below $0.XX or profitablity occuring by XXX 20XX, or a commercial deal being reached with Kaiser, Tricare, CMS, VA by XXX 20XX. If any of these are not met, allowing for a small delay, sell the position at a loss.

Each to your own approach.

[Balance]

The biggee question from todays ann to my mind is , " will the C R be before Xmas or after ? "

Window dressing day over so sp now heading south again.

Next move up (from where-ever the sp is at that time) will be when PEB does its next capital raising as the underwriters need to get the raising away - not a question of if, but when.

[winner69]

Window dressing day over so sp now heading south again.

Next move up (from where-ever the sp is at that time) will be when PEB does its next capital raising as the underwriters need to get the raising away - not a question of if, but when.

That’s pretty amazing all that window dressing eh mate

[Balance]

That’s pretty amazing all that window dressing eh mate

The NZX calls it 'conviction' buying these days, I think. :D

[winner69]

Balance a job for you

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/320985

Bands talents were key to Pacific Edge’s successful evolution from R&D to commercial reality.”

You guys never believe me ....PEB definition of commercialisation is taking the product from the lab to selling a test. They’ve achieved that ...but still wondering what real success

Maybe Band just giving up and getting out before they all go.

[When the bass drops]

Don't you think it may just be down to the natural attrition of directors over time?

[Hectorplains]

Don't you think it may just be down to the natural attrition of directors over time?

Seems odd when they're supposedly poised on the cusp of success...

[When the bass drops]

Would it matter whether he was part of the 'current' directorship that led to the success, or a 'prior' director. He will get recognition all the same.

I just think its a little silly putting a director resignation down to a supposed situation of jumping before they hit the iceberg.

[pierre]

Would it matter whether he was part of the 'current' directorship that led to the success, or a 'prior' director. He will get recognition all the same.

I just think its a little silly putting a director resignation down to a supposed situation of jumping before they hit the iceberg.

No, it's clearly a case of leaping off the Titanic before the inevitable sinking. Sorry - just getting in ahead of a certain poster who will have the definitive reason for this departure.

[When the bass drops]

Getting in before the wise one! hehe. :t_up:

[pierre]

Getting in before the wise one! hehe. :t_up:

I was just trying to add a bit of balance to the discussion.

[Balance]

Seems odd when they're supposedly poised on the cusp of success...

AGM in August - a bit inconvenient to have to answer some questions from the floor?

Earned directors' fees of around $400k plus and get this, not one single cent invested in PEB!

[Baa_Baa]

AGM in August - a bit inconvenient to have to answer some questions from the floor?

Earned directors' fees of around $400k plus and get this, not one single cent invested in PEB!

It makes no difference to them what questions shareholders bring up, they've proven that for umpteen years, the fact of the matter is simply that they don't have the necessary endorsements to go large and unfortunately they don't (imo) have the business model to scale either. It seems rather naive to think that this business could scale to immense volumes with a return-to-base testing model. But that doesn't matter without the endorsements, so it's all moot until their IP is entrenched. Then they'll be overwhelmed by the inadequacies of their processing (testing) business model. It's hard to believe that so many years of disappointment could, even with successes, turn into so many more years to capitalise on it.

[winner69]

AGM in August - a bit inconvenient to have to answer some questions from the floor?

Earned directors' fees of around $400k plus and get this, not one single cent invested in PEB!

Not one cent eh .....he’s a truly independent director ....not swayed at decision time as to what’s best for shareholders (no gain for him) but decides what’s best for the company.

[percy]

Not one cent eh .....he’s a truly independent director ....not swayed at decision time as to what’s best for shareholders (no gain for him) but decides what’s best for the company.

Really.....?????????????.
Bit like going to the casino with play money.!
Unless a director has skin in the game their contribution is worthless.

[Balance]

Really.....?????????????.
Bit like going to the casino with play money.!
Unless a director has skin in the game their contribution is worthless.

W69 is being his ironical self ��

[Xerof]

I note an extremely reasonable request for a 9.8% INCREASE in Directors fees too. After such an exciting and rewarding year for shareholders, I expect everyone will applaud their performance and pass it unanimously

[Schrodinger]

We’re getting close to 5yr predictions of revenue. From memory my pick was sub $10m so nearly on the money. How many went for the $100m lol

[winner69]

W69 is being his ironical self ��

Wasn’t really

The matter of whether independent directors should have skin in the game is regularly debated throughout the world. Can self interest (ie having skin in the game) not always be best for the company per se (sometimes on the discussion between short terminism v long term sustainability)?

Even the Australia Institute of Directors have a recent discussion paper on this topic

Interesting thought - some might say it is insulting to suggest that substantial shareholders who are directors cannot act for the benefit of the organisation as a whole....but it is equally insulting to suggest that directors cannot be trusted to do the best for a company unless they have skin in the game.

[percy]

Wasn’t really

The matter of whether independent directors should have skin in the game is regularly debated throughout the world. Can self interest (ie having skin in the game) not always be best for the company per se (sometimes on the discussion between short terminism v long term sustainability)?

Even the Australia Institute of Directors have a recent discussion paper on this topic

Interesting thought - some might say it is insulting to suggest that substantial shareholders who are directors cannot act for the benefit of the organisation as a whole....but it is equally insulting to suggest that directors cannot be trusted to do the best for a company unless they have skin in the game.

As an investor, directors' skin in the game is a very important consideration when I invest.
Has saved me making foolish mistakes.

[couta1]

As an investor, directors' skin in the game is a very important consideration when I invest.
Has saved me making foolish mistakes. Yep, if you believe in the company then as a Director why wouldn't you take a stake? maybe fatcat Directors just there to collect easy money and don't really give a toss would be the exception.

[peat]

W69 is being his ironical self 🤪


Wasn’t really




tone is complicated with only words on a page , flippancy and sarcasm don't transfer well from speech to writing

pays to be clear !

[winner69]

As an investor, directors' skin in the game is a very important consideration when I invest.
Has saved me making foolish mistakes..

Can’t disagree in principal ....and as fellow shareholders we can’t complain if their self interest comes first

I was only talking about independent directors (not the big shareholder or executive directors) and sometimes it is comforting to know that a truly independent director (ie no shares) is ensuring what is best for the company rather than what is best for shareholders.

There are other things besides financial things that matter to a company’s well being

I was only talking about

[Balance]

As an investor, directors' skin in the game is a very important consideration when I invest.
Has saved me making foolish mistakes.

Likewise for me, Percy.

More so with a company like PEB which brings out its begging bowl every so often (with outlandish and misleading forecasts and financial statements) - if the directors are not prepared to put any of their own money in, they should not be asking other shareholders to.

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?2705-PEB-Pacific-Edge-Ltd/page880

Here's an excellent summary of what the directors of PEB are about - gleaned from Twotic's assessment after he attended the AGM in August 2015 :

1. "His bizarre response to the question regarding directors not taking up their rights in the capital raise capped it all off. For some reason he went down the track of suggesting things could have been different if the rights issue had created some value and at the very least directors could then have had the chance to trade their rights....?? The whole way that question got answered was absolutely pathetic to be honest, including the chime in responses by a couple of the directors."

In other words, they have absolutely no intention of supporting the capital raise with their own money but if there is quick money to be made (like in the previous rights issue), they are happy to sell their rights and take the money.

2. "Another plus was their commitment to reaching $100m by financial year 2018 and that they wont require another capital raise to get them there."

Well, it's 2018 and there have been 3 further capital raisings since that comment at the AGM by the directors! And the next one (if PEB survives) is not that far off!

3. "..... they are basically all in on this KP user programme. CMS and VA cover still appear to be so far away no commitment can be given on any time lines. We are just "one step closer" on what seems to be a never-ending staircase."

So 3 years down the track and they are still progressing and one step even further away(??????)!