Wynyard Group capital raising?

[Ggcc]

From what I hear in hindsight. All of the software was riddled with bugs. The directors would have known this...... A lesson learned and not forgotten. Read between the lines and not into the hype.

[moimoi]

Any disclosures that should be made to all "former" shareholders in Wynyard over on todays NBR article or is it click bait......?

[RupertBear]

Any disclosures that should be made to all "former" shareholders in Wynyard over on todays NBR article or is it click bait......?

Its behind their paywall so I cant read it :( Just seeing the name Wynyard makes me see red!

[RupertBear]

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/300f5e3b/wynyard-liquidator-offers-glimmer-for-wiped-out-shareholders.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Wynyard%20liquidator%20offers%20glimm er%20for%20wiped%20out%20shareholders&utm_content=Wynyard%20liquidator%20offers%20glimme r%20for%20wiped%20out%20shareholders+CID_1552535e0 40d98c594852698cdbeb5ca&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=httpwwwsharechatconzarticle300f5e3bwynyar d-liquidator-offers-glimmer-for-wiped-out-shareholdershtml

yippe we might get $1 each if we are lucky :rolleyes:

[Ggcc]

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/300f5e3b/wynyard-liquidator-offers-glimmer-for-wiped-out-shareholders.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Wynyard%20liquidator%20offers%20glimm er%20for%20wiped%20out%20shareholders&utm_content=Wynyard%20liquidator%20offers%20glimme r%20for%20wiped%20out%20shareholders+CID_1552535e0 40d98c594852698cdbeb5ca&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=httpwwwsharechatconzarticle300f5e3bwynyar d-liquidator-offers-glimmer-for-wiped-out-shareholdershtml

yippe we might get $1 each if we are lucky :rolleyes:
Great news how much money per share do you think we will get?

[RupertBear]

Great news how much money per share do you think we will get?

More than zero which is what we got :D

[Chanchay]

Its behind their paywall so I cant read it :( Just seeing the name Wynyard makes me see red!

Wynyard Quarter has been ruined for me.

I was only slightly burned but it was, (and still is) my only loss ever, so its a sore spot regardless.

Fingers crossed for a cent or two per share.

[RupertBear]

Wynyard Quarter has been ruined for me.

I was only slightly burned but it was, (and still is) my only loss ever, so its a sore spot regardless.

Fingers crossed for a cent or two per share.

I agree the W word still makes me squirm! I took a big hit unfortunately but probably not as much as some. Expensive mistake but learned a lot though ;) PS thats me trying not to be bitter about it :(

[Ggcc]

I maybe able to afford a Christmas turkey this year. A huge fiasco none the less and one can only laugh otherwise one might cry.

[RupertBear]

"Because "a small distribution for shareholders is now foreseeable," Jackson and Graham want investors to provide them with updated contact details"

Hmm who exactly do we provide our contact details to?

[Ggcc]

"Because "a small distribution for shareholders is now foreseeable," Jackson and Graham want investors to provide them with updated contact details"

Hmm who exactly do we provide our contact details to?

I anticipate they will send information to us like what they did throughout this process, by snail mail.

[RupertBear]

I anticipate they will send information to us like what they did throughout this process, by snail mail.

I never heard a word from anyone......only what I read on line....:confused:

[RupertBear]

Has anyone had any communications about this yet? I havnt but I have never heard a word from anyone ever so maybe they dont know I exist :(

[Ggcc]

Has anyone had any communications about this yet? I havnt but I have never heard a word from anyone ever so maybe they dont know I exist :(
Sent you a message

[BlackPeter]

Letter from the NZSA to the Prime Minister pointing out serious failures of our market authorities and signifcant delays for stakeholders to access justice in the case of CBL and WYN. Justice delayed is justice denied. The NZSA asks the Prime Miinister for action:

https://www.nzshareholders.co.nz/pdf/correspondence/PM%20FMA%20Ltr%20110918.pdf

Not sure I hold my breath, but good on the NZSA for trying!

[Ggcc]

Letter from the NZSA to the Prime Minister pointing out serious failures of our market authorities and signifcant delays for stakeholders to access justice in the case of CBL and WYN. Justice delayed is justice denied. The NZSA asks the Prime Miinister for action:

https://www.nzshareholders.co.nz/pdf/correspondence/PM%20FMA%20Ltr%20110918.pdf

Not sure I hold my breath, but good on the NZSA for trying!
Thanks for sharing. Great to see someone is trying to do something

[BlackPeter]

Looks like FMA finished their investigations:


The Financial Markets Authority (FMA) today published the findings of its investigation into Wynyard Group Limited’s (Wynyard) compliance with continuous disclosure and fair dealing obligations.

Following Wynyard’s failure in October 2016, the FMA and NZX undertook an investigation into the conduct of the company and its directors.

Based on our investigation:

the FMA does not consider that any individuals contravened the Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013 (FMC Act)
the FMA has concerns regarding the quality of some of Wynyard's announcements, but it is not clear to us that we could establish a breach of the fair dealing provisions
the FMA does continue to have concerns that Wynyard may have contravened its continuous disclosure obligation in late September 2016.

Here is the full report: https://fma.govt.nz/news-and-resources/media-releases/fma-reports-on-wynyard-investigation?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Media%20release%20FMA%20reports%20on% 20Wynyard%20investigation&utm_content=Media%20release%20FMA%20reports%20on%2 0Wynyard%20investigation+CID_4d05bdeaac6ba6c6c388b 3fd220488ad&utm_source=FMA%20Campaign%20Monitor%20Emails&utm_term=Read%20full%20release

[\Irony on]
Great that we can afford such pristine systems and authorities to protect ourselves - isn't it?

All must be good.
[\Irony off]

Anybody could remind me why we pay for all these authorities? Welcome to the Wild West ...

[whatsup]

Looks like FMA finished their investigations:



Here is the full report: https://fma.govt.nz/news-and-resources/media-releases/fma-reports-on-wynyard-investigation?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Media%20release%20FMA%20reports%20on% 20Wynyard%20investigation&utm_content=Media%20release%20FMA%20reports%20on%2 0Wynyard%20investigation+CID_4d05bdeaac6ba6c6c388b 3fd220488ad&utm_source=FMA%20Campaign%20Monitor%20Emails&utm_term=Read%20full%20release

[\Irony on]
Great that we can afford such pristine systems and authorities to protect ourselves - isn't it?

All must be good.
[\Irony off]

Anybody could remind me why we pay for all these authorities? Welcome to the Wild West ...

I wonder if they will come to the same conclusion with CBL !!!

[moka]

Looks like FMA finished their investigations:



Here is the full report: https://fma.govt.nz/news-and-resources/media-releases/fma-reports-on-wynyard-investigation?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Media%20release%20FMA%20reports%20on% 20Wynyard%20investigation&utm_content=Media%20release%20FMA%20reports%20on%2 0Wynyard%20investigation+CID_4d05bdeaac6ba6c6c388b 3fd220488ad&utm_source=FMA%20Campaign%20Monitor%20Emails&utm_term=Read%20full%20release

[\Irony on]
Great that we can afford such pristine systems and authorities to protect ourselves - isn't it?

All must be good.
[\Irony off]

Anybody could remind me why we pay for all these authorities? Welcome to the Wild West ...

It is the Neoliberal influence, which was pervasive under Key and the National government. The state should not interfere in the markets. It should get out of the way of the private enterprise and “entrepreneurs.” Although there are laws to protect people the government departments tasked to enforce these laws are under-resourced or given the message by the politicians not to interfere as in the case with WOF and NZTA (laissez faire regime = neoliberalism.)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/108842353/fate-of-nzta-hangs-in-the-balance-as-govt-launches-wide-ranging-investigation
The future of the New Zealand Transport agency and senior executives hangs in the balance as the Government brings in a sweeping review.
The laissez faire regime has been overturned - Transport Minister Phil Twyford says the review covers everything the agency is in charge of, including driver testing, licenses, freight licences, warrants of fitness, registration, heavy vehicle permits, speed management, rail safety, "and any other relevant statutory functions".

I found it hard to find a good definition of neoliberalism, to understand what it actually involved. Wikipedia wasn’t helpful but this site gives a clearer understanding.

https://corpwatch.org/article/what-neoliberalism
The main points of neo-liberalism include:
1. THE RULE OF THE MARKET. Liberating "free" enterprise or private enterprise from any bonds imposed by the government (the state) no matter how much social damage this causes.
2. DEREGULATION. Reduce government regulation of everything that could diminish profits, including protecting the environment and safety on the job.
3. ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF "THE PUBLIC GOOD" or "COMMUNITY" and replacing it with "individual responsibility." i.e. blaming people if they fail, your fault if you invested in Wynard you didn’t do your research well because you were either ‘stupid or lazy” = buyer beware, rather than seeing it as a systemic problem.

In his book A Brief History of Neoliberalism David Harvey argues that neoliberalism is a form of political economy that strives to accomplish only one mission: to restore the class power of the global economic elite.
http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/1353/book-review-a-brief-history-of-neoliberalism-by-david-harvey-2005

[kyanar]

I anticipate they will send information to us like what they did throughout this process, by snail mail.

And by snail mail, I presume you mean they sticky taped a note to an actual snail and sent it on its way to you.

[RupertBear]

And by snail mail, I presume you mean they sticky taped a note to an actual snail and sent it on its way to you.

Well if they did my snail is either very very slow or it has gotten lost because I have never recieved any information from them :mellow:

[BlackPeter]

Just had a meeting close to the (as I found out previous) Jade headquarters (remember - the company "creating" our amazing Wynyard and cashing in most of the proceeds from the WYN listing ...). They used to be housed in a quite flash glass palace in the Christchurch Technology Park close to the airport.

I had a bit of time and went off for a walk ... and was quite surprised to find out that the flash building (still standing) is now home to a cafe and (next to others) some sort of private education provider. The Jade insignia disappeared - but a "for sale" sign is now in front of the building - just incase somebody is interested in buying a very representative building - might be cheap?

The once proud Jade moved on some quarters - and sits now in a quite smallish and (certainly under the harsh sunlight) run down looking two story building at the end of the road. Sounds like they lost (or probably had ot let go) more than half of their staff as well.

Maybe there is some sort of divine justice after all?

[Ggcc]

Just had a meeting close to the (as I found out previous) Jade headquarters (remember - the company "creating" our amazing Wynyard and cashing in most of the proceeds from the WYN listing ...). They used to be housed in a quite flash glass palace in the Christchurch Technology Park close to the airport.

I had a bit of time and went off for a walk ... and was quite surprised to find out that the flash building (still standing) is now home to a cafe and (next to others) some sort of private education provider. The Jade insignia disappeared - but a "for sale" sign is now in front of the building - just incase somebody is interested in buying a very representative building - might be cheap?

The once proud Jade moved on some quarters - and sits now in a quite smallish and (certainly under the harsh sunlight) run down looking two story building at the end of the road. Sounds like they lost (or probably had ot let go) more than half of their staff as well.

Maybe there is some sort of divine justice after all?
Was thinking about this thread today and thought when do we get our small reimbursement for that lovely failed company. Of course we were told it may happen and not a guarantee........ I met someone yesterday who used Wynyard’s failure as her case study in finance for how not to do business.

[Vish]

Anyone else get an email from KordaMentha?

'Subject to the final resolution of certain matters, we also
anticipate there may be a very small amount of funds available to be distributed to shareholders.'

Fingers crossed but not hoping... just wonder how very small that amount might be.

[RupertBear]

Anyone else get an email from KordaMentha?

'Subject to the final resolution of certain matters, we also
anticipate there may be a very small amount of funds available to be distributed to shareholders.'

Fingers crossed but not hoping... just wonder how very small that amount might be.

I gave up hoping for anything back from my disasterous investment in Wynyard a long time ago. If they say there may be a very small amount of funds available I suspect that means we might see a very very very small amount distributed to us. I am thinking a chocolate topped icecream amount :rolleyes:

PS I think we will be lucky to get 1% of our investment back, if we got anywhere near 10% I would be pretty excited, anything more than that and I would probably break out in a smile :D

[MtGox]

I’m trying to understand what went wrong with Wynyard (I wasn’t an investor but want to learn from them). I’d like to read their old annual reports, but they’re not on the NZX anymore. Anybody got a copy they could send me?

[BeeBop]

I’m trying to understand what went wrong with Wynyard (I wasn’t an investor but want to learn from them). I’d like to read their old annual reports, but they’re not on the NZX anymore. Anybody got a copy they could send me?

Make sure you read this entire thread too....a friend of mine lost most of 75k....I couldn’t convince them not to buy at the start, nor could I convince to sell on the way down because this ‘was going to be big’ and another friend of theirs put their house deposit into it (which was a sure guarantee to success).

[Ggcc]

I’m trying to understand what went wrong with Wynyard (I wasn’t an investor but want to learn from them). I’d like to read their old annual reports, but they’re not on the NZX anymore. Anybody got a copy they could send me?
Sorry I threw all my reports away. I think management were way out of their depth.

[forest]

MtGox, I have the 2013 and 2015 Annual Reports as well as the 2013 interim Report.

If you are interested in those, send me a private notification with the address you like me to send them to.

[silverblizzard888]

Can't get you the annual report, but if you are really interested there is a investigation report produced by the FMA on Wynyard https://www.fma.govt.nz/news-and-resources/reports-and-papers/investigation-of-potential-disclosure-breaches-during-the-failure-of-wynyard-group-limited/

[blobbles]

Long story short from my memory:

They started recognising the next years revenue before it had come in. It didn't come in during the time frame they recognised it. Which led to a shocking loss of confidence in management.

Then management started not informing the market in a timely manner.

At the same time, reports started coming out that their application didn't do what it said it did. Which rightfully scared a lot of us out of it.

I think these three events, particularly the first, sent them into a death spiral which they could not recover. The SP dropped badly with each subsequent screw up and it soon became obvious that they were basically insolvent. A last ditch ($10m I think?) bridging loan was secured, which still wasn't enough to pay the bills.

When you are funding yourself through capital raisings, running at a loss to grab market share, you need to keep honest as the number one rule. You need to work hard to keep customers and cash flowing in as number 2 rule. And you need to build a damn good product as a number 3 rule. Sometimes you can change the order of the rules, but if any of them slip, you are in trouble.

Compare with Xero who built a brilliant product, were well managed with incredibly hard working staff and management who in turn were completely honest. They attracted big and small investors with this strategy.

[SilverBack]

For Wynyard to make a cash raising as equity so close to their failure is an indictment (to me) against the Directors. Perhaps they were just incompetent as some have claimed here but that should not absolve them from responsibility as directors. I wonder how many investors thought that a CR meant that the company was a going concern and then invested, when clearly it was anything but?
If you want some other background on the woes at the company prior to failure then read some of the comments on glassdoor.co.nz from staff.

[SilverBack]

Is the class action against the company and its Directors still active?

[zgnz]

If I remember correctly, the tech-growth narrative fell apart pretty quickly. They were projecting something like 40-45m in the last FY, think it came in around mid 20's million (e.g. little to no growth from previous year)

Management kept blaming the 'lumpy' contract timings, falling outside the announcement dates etc etc. The 'large' pipeline of leads never actually eventuated into closed sales.

They were spending like a hot tech startup. Flash new office spaces, hirings etc.

Product was very average. (Ultimately the main problem.)

It rode some of the xero-hype wave around the time, along with GeoOP.

[mondograss]

If I remember correctly, the tech-growth narrative fell apart pretty quickly. They were projecting something like 40-45m in the last FY, think it came in around mid 20's million (e.g. little to no growth from previous year)

Management kept blaming the 'lumpy' contract timings, falling outside the announcement dates etc etc. The 'large' pipeline of leads never actually eventuated into closed sales.

They were spending like a hot tech startup. Flash new office spaces, hirings etc.

Product was very average. (Ultimately the main problem.)

It rode some of the xero-hype wave around the time, along with GeoOP.

Orion Health management tended to do much the same.

[Balance]

Orion Health management tended to do much the same.

Lost a fair bit of money with Provenco (sold out for a big loss before it went broke) and learnt my lesson - so steered clear of the hype with Wynyard, GeoP, Orions etc - actually posted my warnings too on their threads.

What did I learn from Provenco?

Lumpy deals won with built in long tail service and maintenance (upgrade) contracts are a recipe for a company going broke, especially when the companies are tendering against established players.

That's the story with Provenco, Wynyard and I would venture to add, Plexure.

[Snoopy]

I’m trying to understand what went wrong with Wynyard (I wasn’t an investor but want to learn from them). I’d like to read their old annual reports, but they’re not on the NZX anymore. Anybody got a copy they could send me?

MtGox, I think there is a requirement for NZ companies to file their annual reports in some form at the National Library in Wellington. If all else fails, perhaps you could try there?

SNOOPY

[petty]

Lost a fair bit of money with Provenco (sold out for a big loss before it went broke) and learnt my lesson - so steered clear of the hype with Wynyard, GeoP, Orions etc - actually posted my earnings too on their threads.

What did I learn from Provenco?

Lumpy deals won with built in long tail service and maintenance (upgrade) contracts are a recipe for a company going broke, especially when the companies are tendering against established players.

That's the story with Provenco, Wynyard and I would venture to add, Plexure.

Would you put Ikegps in this bucket.?

[Balance]

Would you put Ikegps in this bucket.?

Have not had a look at them since it's a Forsyth Barr IPO.

Wynyard, CBL, Feltex, Credit Sails, SCF, Intueri etc etc - lesson learnt!

Enuf said.

[petty]

Lost a fair bit of money with Provenco (sold out for a big loss before it went broke) and learnt my lesson - so steered clear of the hype with Wynyard, GeoP, Orions etc - actually posted my warnings too on their threads.

What did I learn from Provenco?

Lumpy deals won with built in long tail service and maintenance (upgrade) contracts are a recipe for a company going broke, especially when the companies are tendering against established players.

That's the story with Provenco, Wynyard and I would venture to add, Plexure.

Share price is languishing and I’m looking at an entry. Got dealt to by Wynyard so learnt to tread more carefully with these type of share offerings.

[SilverBack]

Perhaps you learned gentlemen should be posting on the IKE thread instead of the Wynyard one.

[Balance]

Perhaps you learned gentlemen should be posting on the IKE thread instead of the Wynyard one.

So the mugs who are happy to partake in Forsyth Barr's IPOs become wiser?