If National wins ...

[fungus pudding]

There's quite a bit of truth in that, I think the Greens always offer a sensible alternative when they criticise National. Perhaps Labour are looking for the narrative for this non-event budget surplus, but I think that if R&D tax credits had been left in place in 2009, if the KiwiBuild project had started, if SMEs had been supported instead of big business, if the tax breaks to the wealthiest hadn't occurred, we would have a budget surplus again by now,

That assumes that higher taxes mean higher revenue, and we all know, as Labour proved, the opposite can happen and often does. Think Laffer curve.

[Sgt Pepper]

That assumes that higher taxes mean higher revenue, and we all know, as Labour proved, the opposite can happen and often does. Think Laffer curve.

No doubt there is a point where governments can optimise revenue without diminishing returns as in a stagnant economy.The trouble is Peoples expectations of governments are outstripping any governments ability to pay for it.
I used to sit on the Board of directors for a health insurance company. The industry tried several times to persuade governments of the merit of introducing tax deductions for health insurance premiums in order to take pressure off policy holders and consequently retain coverage rates and divert patients away from the public system. Both Labour and National refused .

[elZorro]

That assumes that higher taxes mean higher revenue, and we all know, as Labour proved, the opposite can happen and often does. Think Laffer curve.

Yes, you've mentioned that before FP. But the Laffer model only implies that if you increase taxes too much, eventually the effort made to circumvent the taxes makes the increase null and void. Except that even at current rates, tax accountants still have plenty of work. Trusts are still out there, even if most of them are a sham, and good capital is flying into housing, farms, property, mainly because it's a way of minimising tax in the meantime, and making a tax-free gain later. It's not because it's a great investment on paper in the official short-medium term, it can't be.

But you didn't answer my other question, was that bad policy of National, to fuel the housing prices further? Who did it really help?

[fungus pudding]

Yes, you've mentioned that before FP. But the Laffer model only implies that if you increase taxes too much, eventually the effort made to circumvent the taxes makes the increase null and void. Except that even at current rates, tax accountants still have plenty of work. Trusts are still out there, even if most of them are a sham, and good capital is flying into housing, farms, property, mainly because it's a way of minimising tax in the meantime, and making a tax-free gain later. It's not because it's a great investment on paper in the official short-medium term, it can't be.

But you didn't answer my other question, was that bad policy of National, to fuel the housing prices further? Who did it really help?

Of course it was. It's complete nonsense. We all know that, just as we know lowering taxes stimulates the economy - raising them stifles it. (apart from shifting activity to the black economy) Subsides rarely end up where intended. In the case of housing grants, the vendor, not the purchaser, will benefit.

[Daytr]

Education is different these days & I was probably part of the first era when this change started coming about. I was the first year not to have UE in 1986 & we were internally assessed instead Kids these days are taught about how to solve or how to learn/think rather than necessarily & repetitively learn the three RRRs etc. This is good & bad & suits some kids & not others. I wouldn't right off the entire education system as I see some very smart & brilliant kids coming through & in general kids are getting more education than they were say 30 years ago However at a university level I think it does need to be held to a high standard as this is where you get 'qualified' to be somebody. Its not to say there shouldn't b other levels of education& curse as there are at techs etc, however when I comes to a professional qualification standards need to be maintained. One of the major costs to a student particularly in Auckland comes back to our other pet topic, accommodation.

[Daytr]

GST does exactly this, taxes the masses that spend far more of their earnings than others that earn more. Same with high electricity prices, they act like a tax on the poor, again stifling the economy to pay dividends to the middle class & above.
All they need to do is make the tax dodgers, the super wealthy, lawyers & corporates that dodge tax with offshoring & all our Government revenue issues go away.

Back to Ponytail gate. Key's latest BS. I would have done the same if it was a man. Does anyone actually believe that? A
man with a pony tail & you want to pull it over & over & when you are told to stop, continue? The guy has no credibility. She (the waitress) threatened to punch Key in the face. Do you think he would have carried on doing it if a 6'2" man had threatened him with the same?

Of course it was. It's complete nonsense. We all know that, just as we know lowering taxes stimulates the economy - raising them stifles it. (apart from shifting activity to the black economy) Subsides rarely end up where intended. In the case of housing grants, the vendor, not the purchaser, will benefit.

[artemis]

GST does exactly this, taxes the masses that spend far more of their earnings than others that earn more................

I assume you mean lower income people spend a higher proportion of their income, thus pay proportionally more GST than higher income people.

That would hardly ever be the case for people who are paying rent or mortgages as neither of these attract GST. And as we are frequently told, many lower income people spend a high proportion of their income on housing.

[fungus pudding]

GST does exactly this, taxes the masses that spend far more of their earnings than others that earn more. Same with high electricity prices, they act like a tax on the poor,

Electricity is no different than shoes, bicycles, visits to the dentist or going to the movies. The consumer pays for all these things. That's hardly acting like a tax.
The big hole in govt. tax revenue is the black economy - small traders and service industries not declaring all, or in some cases, any of their earnings.

[Sgt Pepper]

Electricity is no different than shoes, bicycles, visits to the dentist or going to the movies. The consumer pays for all these things. That's hardly acting like a tax.
The big hole in govt. tax revenue is the black economy - small traders and service industries not declaring all, or in some cases, any of their earnings.

Many years ago, one of my lecturers at Otago University, a Canadian, told the class that one of the provincial governments had an effective, but brutal way of dealing with tax evasion. If I thought FP was evading tax, I would report you to the tax authorities. If a tax audit collected unpaid tax , the person reporting it would receive 10% of the sum involved!

[Daytr]

Except hat NZ electricity prices are among the highest in the world. I'm not saying people shouldn't pay for power, but the way electricity market is structured & protected by government, means NZ gets 'taxed' by paying higher power bills.