Labour govt 2020-23

[BDL]

What do you think Balance?
You've been a big cheerleader for Chine recently.

What do you think dobby? Do you trust China? Are you allowed an opinion that is not Labour / Ardern. (she doesn't really care, she said) "Be kind."

[dobby41]

What do you think dobby? Do you trust China? Are you allowed an opinion that is not Labour / Ardern. (she doesn't really care, she said) "Be kind."

No, I don't but I was asking Balance given he is very bullish about China.

[Balance]

No, I don't but I was asking Balance given he is very bullish about China.

A good perspective which is in tune with mine :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/1284...-a-single-lens

"If you read the daily headlines, whether from Ukraine or closer to home in the Solomon Islands, you could be excused for concluding that conflict of some sort with China is inevitable. But in my view, seeing China as an existential threat in which everything it does is bad, and nothing it does is good, is unwarranted."

"New Zealand needs to use multiple lenses when viewing China, not only geopolitical but also human rights, economic and commercial, strategic, and cultural. None are sufficient alone. They have to be blended so that we can take a comprehensive view of our relations with this large and important country."

And this is an excellent example of why China will continue to rise while the US is in terminal decline:

https://huffpost.netblogpro.com/entr..._recirculation

[Balance]

Meanwhile, Ardern & Labour are back-pedalling like crazy over co-governance after internal polling shows NZers sick to their back teeth with the divisive & racist policies of this incompetent government :

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...lectoral-rules

[dobby41]

Meanwhile, Ardern & Labour are back-pedalling like crazy over co-governance after internal polling shows NZers sick to their back teeth with the divisive & racist policies of this incompetent government :

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...lectoral-rules

Well that's a good thing isn't it - responding to the public will?
Reading and responding to the electorate is called back-peddling and not doing so is being idiological - can't win either way it seems.

Key was a good one for it - swung around all over the show depending on their private research polls.

[dobby41]

A good perspective which is in tune with mine :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/1284...-a-single-lens

"If you read the daily headlines, whether from Ukraine or closer to home in the Solomon Islands, you could be excused for concluding that conflict of some sort with China is inevitable. But in my view, seeing China as an existential threat in which everything it does is bad, and nothing it does is good, is unwarranted."

"New Zealand needs to use multiple lenses when viewing China, not only geopolitical but also human rights, economic and commercial, strategic, and cultural. None are sufficient alone. They have to be blended so that we can take a comprehensive view of our relations with this large and important country."

And this is an excellent example of why China will continue to rise while the US is in terminal decline:

https://huffpost.netblogpro.com/entr..._recirculation

Thanks - I appreciate the clarity.
Roughly where I stand also.
I don't trust China - they are out for themselves.
But, I don't trust USA either - they are out for themselves.
China just plays a much longer game than USA.

[Balance]

Well that's a good thing isn't it - responding to the public will?
Reading and responding to the electorate is called back-peddling and not doing so is being idiological - can't win either way it seems.

Key was a good one for it - swung around all over the show depending on their private research polls.

If the public is aware of what's happening and their opinions are properly canvassed, discussed and debated - yes, it's a good thing.

That's NOT the case with Ardern & the Maori cabal in her cabinet, is it?

They are trying to force through racist & divisive policies through devious means - without the benefit of NZers being aware.

Remember how they hide the He Puapua report from their Coalition partner, NZ First?

And how they impose a requirement for a %tage of all government contracts to have to go to Maori interests (irrespective of capabilities or experience)?

[Balance]

Thanks - I appreciate the clarity.
Roughly where I stand also.
I don't trust China - they are out for themselves.
But, I don't trust USA either - they are out for themselves.
China just plays a much longer game than USA.

I do business with China (exports & finance) and yes, the Chinese in China are indeed out for themselves. But which country is any different?

If you understand the China history of how they were bullied, humiliated and exploited by the Western powers & Japan however, you will not make the demonizing comments about them as Western media & governments are inclined to do.

A prime example :

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-...many/101013116

Peter Dutton : "......China was on a similar path to Germany in the 1930s in the lead up to World War II."

https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...2fe6f1a8954029

An extraordinary claim Australia should be prepared for war has been backed by Scott Morrison. Defence Minister Peter Dutton marked Anzac Day by again comparing China and Russia to Nazi Germany before World War II. “The only way you can preserve peace is to prepare for war and to be strong as a country,” Mr Dutton said.

Have a read of this and ask yourself if it's ever acceptable for a nation to force drugs (opium) on another nation through force of arms because the nation does not want to trade on unequal terms?

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30810596

[dobby41]

I do business with China (exports & finance) and yes, the Chinese in China are indeed out for themselves. But which country is any different?

If you understand the China history of how they were bullied, humiliated and exploited by the Western powers & Japan however, you will not make the demonizing comments about them as Western media & governments are inclined to do.

I don't believe I have made any demonizing comments.
The thrust of this sub conversation was around trusting China to not execute the person being sent back - as they said they wouldn't.
Do YOU trust them to honour their word?

By the way, they have inflicted a lot of home goals like the Cultural Revolution.

[Balance]

I don't believe I have made any demonizing comments.
The thrust of this sub conversation was around trusting China to not execute the person being sent back - as they said they wouldn't.
Do YOU trust them to honour their word?

By the way, they have inflicted a lot of home goals like the Cultural Revolution.

You forgot to add ‘The Great Leap Forward’ & Tiananmen Square massacre - anywhere between 20m to 50m people were estimated to have perished from the famine & killings. What have those deaths got to do with Western powers forcing drugs on the Chinese and treating the Chinese as inferior people in their own land?

Surely you can sympathise that any people so subjected to addiction & humiliation will look after their self interest when they are able to and view their bullies with suspicion and retribution when the right time comes along?