HGH - Heartland Group Holdings

[winner69]

I notice the terminology 'in specie distribution' in the announcements.
I am just wondering what does that mean here?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

In Specie Distribution generally means no cash changed hands

I think Quadrant owned nearly 70% of Seniors in the first instance so most of the shares issued by Heartland were theirs anyway .... is this just distributing them (what they already had anyway) amongst the funds they operate

[vin]

I only jumped in again last week at $1.29..

Would be seriously overweight if I got amongst it again..

[Snow Leopard]

In Specie Distribution generally means no cash changed hands

I think Quadrant owned nearly 70% of Seniors in the first instance so most of the shares issued by Heartland were theirs anyway .... is this just distributing them (what they already had anyway) amongst the funds they operate

So it seems that the people who did 'own' them now own them.

All change then?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[iceman]

It is great that they see value in staying in rather than cashing out ! Good for HNZ I reckon


So it seems that the people who did 'own' them now own them.

All change then?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[winner69]

So it seems that the people who did 'own' them now own them.

All change then?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Seems that way though a couple million not accounted for. Probably the other interested parties in Seniors.

[winner69]

It is great that they see value in staying in rather than cashing out ! Good for HNZ I reckon

Maybe just a housekeeping exercise to keep the records straight.

Short / medium / long term intent still not clear methinks

Overhang still exists?

[winner69]

So the $1.27 wasn't a real price agreed by a willing buyer and a happy seller. Just the market price the day the paperwork done.

[winner69]

Irrespective of what all this really means I hope quadrant give Jeff and his team a rev up.

[percy]

So it seems that the people who did 'own' them now own them.

All change then?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

So at the end of the day,we are where we started the day.!!!

[Harvey Specter]

So it seems that the people who did 'own' them now own them.


So the $1.27 wasn't a real price agreed by a willing buyer and a happy seller. Just the market price the day the paperwork done.

Yip - this is just paper shuffling exercise. No information to be gained from the transaction.

[Beagle]

I am happy to have bought more at $1.29 notwithstanding the in specie nature of this transaction. Great value at that price :)

[Baa_Baa]

What does it really mean in regards to the overhang, are we any the wiser? On the face of it there seems to be a transfer to a more active entity. Doesn't that increase the risks to smaller holders?

[Beagle]

I sold all of my HNZ today for a tidy short term profit. Having read back through my recent posts, I realise that I do have a conflict and would rather not be owning a small bank working on fringe products, for the meantime, perhaps not even major banks but we'll see about that in due course. Ethics and investing is loaded with dilemma. I'm happy to take their 4.5% on call deposit rate though, I can't see why not. HNZ has had a nice run though they have yet to post successes from their various edgier investments and seem happy to go to riskier places where larger banks are equally happy to avoid. All the best to holders and accumulators.

BAA


What does it really mean in regards to the overhang, are we any the wiser? On the face of it there seems to be a transfer to a more active entity. Doesn't that increase the risks to smaller holders?

Mate you're not allowed to turn into a black sheep now you've sold :)
Fact is SUM did quite well while Quadrant were on board as shareholders, not so well since. As W69 is alluding too, a significant holder of their size can be good for revving up management AKA cracking the whip :D

[gv1]

I have reservations about quadrant has well. Sold out. Will see from sidelines.

[Baa_Baa]

Ha ha Roger, sure aint no black sheep, just keeping an eye on HNZ and trying to understand this large shareholder transfer. My interest was piqued when the share price didn't move after the 'overhang' had apparently gone, but then not gone apparently.


Mate you're not allowed to turn into a black sheep now you've sold :)
Fact is SUM did quite well while Quadrant were on board as shareholders, not so well since. As W69 is alluding too, a significant holder of their size can be good for revving up management AKA cracking the whip :D

[percy]

I think it is interesting watching the share register;who is coming,who is going,which director is buying ,which director is selling.Always interesting.With HNZ we have seen George Kerr sell out,George Gould sell down,Greg Tomlinson buy more,etc.
Being a shareholder [over 23 years] in EBO I have seen a lot of changes on their register too.
Although always interesting,I think it is of greater importance to watch the actual business;are they doing the right things,are they growing and improving the business,are they watching they have enough capital,are dividends increasing etc.Ultimately improving fundamentals will drive the share price.
IPOs are a lot different; there you must watch who the organising broker was,and where the shares went,because often they do not go to a "happy home."!!!!!!.

[iceman]

Some pressure on banks profits, albeit still strong, according to this article. Heartland and Co-op leading in profit growth http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11430266
We are well positioned :)

[Beagle]

I query where the people selling out are going to put their money? Where else are you going to find a stock that comfortably pays a respectable dividend but still has reasonable growth prospects too? Does the overhang effect the company itself or its intrinsic value? This could present a serious buying opportunity. Fingers crossed.

Well said. Stock is on a very realistic PE multiple...tough ask to find better value in this market on a risk reward basis.

[winner69]

Interesting article

http://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/banks-look-vulnerable-as-lucrative-loans-market-gets-personal-online-20150410-1mha28.html

At least Heartland are on the inside when P2P really takes off as its bound to if the blinkered thinking of this analyst is anything to go by - Macquarie analyst Mike Wiblin is sceptical of the long-term potential for peer-to-peer lending to be the "game changer" that proponents claim.

P2P gaining traction because people don't trust banks and bankers any more. I'm in that as greedy bankers, Heartland included, are slowly destroying te world.

[percy]

Interesting article

http://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/banks-look-vulnerable-as-lucrative-loans-market-gets-personal-online-20150410-1mha28.html

At least Heartland are on the inside when P2P really takes off as its bound to if the blinkered thinking of this analyst is anything to go by - Macquarie analyst Mike Wiblin is sceptical of the long-term potential for peer-to-peer lending to be the "game changer" that proponents claim.

P2P gaining traction because people don't trust banks and bankers any more. I'm in that as greedy bankers, Heartland included, are slowly destroying te world.

As always thank you for the link.
Yes the greedy bankers have slowly been destroying the world since the first bank was formed in 1472.I expect they will continue to do so for the next 543 years.!!
Any guess as to what HNZ sp will be then?

[winner69]

As always thank you for the link.
Yes the greedy bankers have slowly been destroying the world since the first bank was formed in 1472.I expect they will continue to do so for the next 543 years.!!
Any guess as to what HNZ sp will be then?

Good one Percy

Maybe in 543 years time Heartland will be in headlines like this one of a year or so ago

Founded in 1472, world's oldest bank downgraded to junk status

Monte dei Paschi di Siena is the bank in question

[winner69]

As always thank you for the link.
Yes the greedy bankers have slowly been destroying the world since the first bank was formed in 1472.I expect they will continue to do so for the next 543 years.!!
Any guess as to what HNZ sp will be then?

...quote Percy "......slowly been destroying the world' ...... maybe yes ......but the speed of such destroying has increased in modern times.

Some might say that with excessive interest margins (ones even Shylock would be proud of) nearly double their peers Heartland is an anti-social bank and doesn't serve the community well ....and it is these sort of greedynthings that is creating that increasing momentum.

[percy]

...quote Percy "......slowly been destroying the world' ...... maybe yes ......but the speed of such destroying has increased in modern times.

Some might say that with excessive interest margins nearly double their peers Heartland is an anti-social bank and doesn't serve the community well ....and it is these sort of greedynthings that is creating that increasing momentum.
Yes I guess it is like a lot of things in life.Three or more sides to every story.
I would think your view on banks would vary depending on whether you are a depositor,borrower,or an owner.
I am reminded of the chap who told his friends, at the bowling club, he was taking his money out of his bank and putting it with a finance company, to get a higher interest rate.Then told his friends his son far was having to work a lot of extra overtime to pay his mortgage,as the bank was charging him too higher an interest rate.....
What is your old saying,"the more things change,the more they remain the same."??!!

[winner69]

Yes I guess it is like a lot of things in life.Three or more sides to every story.
I would think your view on banks would vary depending on whether you are a depositor,borrower,or an owner

The fourth view is a more general view of what's best for the the world

At the moment it's the owners (we'll include managers in this category) who are the ones stuffing the world by being really greedy and expecting/making excessive returns

[percy]

The fourth view is a more general view of what's best for the the world

At the moment it's the owners (we'll include managers in this category) who are the ones stuffing the world by being really greedy and expecting/making excessive returns

Maybe the fourth view is more balanced as they have no skin in the game,yet I can't help but think of the politicians, who always promise "a fair and just" solution to everything, without saying to whom it is "fair and just."!!!!!

[winner69]

Maybe the fourth view is more balanced as they have no skin in the game,yet I can't help but think of the politicians, who always promise "a fair and just" solution to everything, without saying to whom it is "fair and just."!!!!!

But politicians are at th beck and call of the money men ....the greedy ones ....that's why it's usually not 'fair and just' to the populous but as you say 'fair and just' to those that matter.

[percy]

But politicians are at th beck and call of the money men ....the greedy ones ....that's why it's usually not 'fair and just' to the populous but as you say 'fair and just' to those that matter.

Sorry I can't give you a link,but those that matter sure helped themselves!!!
Yahoo business and finance NZ.....Moldova looks for answers as $1billion disapperars...

[mfd]

...quote Percy "......slowly been destroying the world' ...... maybe yes ......but the speed of such destroying has increased in modern times.

Some might say that with excessive interest margins (ones even Shylock would be proud of) nearly double their peers Heartland is an anti-social bank and doesn't serve the community well ....and it is these sort of greedynthings that is creating that increasing momentum.

I've been wondering about this - is the higher interest margin here the sign of a well run business, or is it purely related to a higher proportion of risky loans? Are they getting cheaper funding (presumably not with the new market beating savings account), are customers willingly paying higher interest or are they taking business that no-one else will touch?

I have no axe to grind here, just curious to see what peoples interpretation of this is? Is it an asset or a warning sign?

[percy]

I've been wondering about this - is the higher interest margin here the sign of a well run business, or is it purely related to a higher proportion of risky loans? Are they getting cheaper funding (presumably not with the new market beating savings account), are customers willingly paying higher interest or are they taking business that no-one else will touch?

I have no axe to grind here, just curious to see what peoples interpretation of this is? Is it an asset or a warning sign?
Welcome mfd,and Winner69 is our resident axe grinder!!!! lol..
Heartland Bank is not low margin home mortgage driven,as is the case with the "major" banks.
Heartland Bank has a wide spread of more profitable,usually shorter term loans.The spread include Resverse equity loans on houses,Motor Vehicle, and equipment loans,Rural loans often on livestock,and seasonal loans.
So the makeup of Heartland Bank's lending is in the more profitable areas.
Any investor in banks, or finance companies, needs to keep an eye on the spread of loans,ie not too many eggs in one basket,and the level of bad loans.Heartland Bank has a good spread of loans and impairements [bad loans] are at acceptable levels.

[Beagle]

Welcome mfd,and Winner69 is our resident axe grinder!!!! lol..
Heartland Bank is not low margin home mortgage driven,as is the case with the "major" banks.
Heartland Bank has a wide spread of more profitable,usually shorter term loans.The spread include Resverse equity loans on houses,Motor Vehicle, and equipment loans,Rural loans often on livestock,and seasonal loans.
So the makeup of Heartland Bank's lending is in the more profitable areas.
Any investor in banks, or finance companies, needs to keep an eye on the spread of loans,ie not too many eggs in one basket,and the level of bad loans.Heartland Bank has a good spread of loans and impairements [bad loans] are at acceptable levels.

Nice summary.

Some of the left leaning socialist views expressed on this page are quite surprising from one that clearly knows the basics of capitalism 101 extremely well, not you mate this is directed at someone else.

Some could be forgiven for thinking a certain poster sold down their position and is trying to jawbone the SP down.

Hopefully this post turns the page...as much of this one simply isn't worth reading, opps did I really say that out loud lol

Damm it didn't. Okay... best I post some more content then.

I watched HNZ's elongated new reverse equity mortgage television advertisement this morning.

Leaving aside the issue of whether this makes a quick and punchy / cost effective campaign or not...

It certainly makes an emotional argument about helping older folks stay where they belong in their own homes where they feel most comfortable.

A left leaning anti capitalist would of course try and make the argument that such loans to old folks are a scandal seeing they're at greater margins that for regular bank loans and seeing as potentially they could make quite a significant impact on the next generations inheritance.

On the other hand a right thinking capitalist would make the case that they're providing a profoundly valuable service helping our seniors stay in their homes and enjoy a quality lifestyle or much needed medical services or whatever other thing an older client might like.

Remind me again who's equity in who's home is it and who's right is it to make their own decisions about spending some of it ?

Its all about one's perspective...

I think with all due respect to our friends apparently new found social conscience, references to shylock type lending rates are best directed at the pay day lenders charging exorbitant interest rates.

I wouldn't invest in one of those payday lending operations as a matter of principle and I would venture to suggest many shareholders in HNZ would find the suggestion that their bank is a shylock operation quite offensive.

Have we turned the page yet ?

No Okay...what else.

Well many will be somewhat perplexed by this weeks turn of events with Quadrant private equity's apparent placement of the stake it already had from its ownership of Seniors limited when their stake of 43m shares vested, came out of escrow.

A certain experienced accountant should have been alerted by the term "in specie" but bought anyway thinking the overhang had gone.

Lesson for the week, carefully read and digest the full content and meaning of company notifications.

So what to make of this peculiar arrangement ?

We see its been placed in two of quadrants funds which possibly suggests either:-

1. Its been placed there to stay more permanently than would have been suggested by the previous press release saying they were going to sell their stake

2. Quadrant don't think this is the opportune time to sell.

3. Both of the above.

It seems to me that the market was extremely well informed of their intention to sell down as expressed many months ago

To my mind its extremely rare for a major shareholder to signal their intent so many months in advance and the market very clearly anticipated a placement of some sort with most major institutions withdrawing their bids in recent weeks.

The subsequent effect on the SP was plain for all to see.

Seeing as the market was so primed for a placement and one didn't occur what do we make of this ?

Its appears to me Quadrant simply aren't prepared to sell into a placement that would probably have had to be made in the low $1.20 range to get the volume away and done and dusted.

At the minimum we can draw the conclusion reading between the lines, (those of us interested in such capitalist ramblings and theories that is), that Quadrant as an activist private equity fund with a long and well established and reputation, see value in HNZ at the current level..so maybe the silly old accountant who thought the overhang had gone and bought anyway, wasn't so silly after all :)

Surely this elongated post turns the page of some strange previous left wing ramblings.

No okay its time for an update and some fundamental analysis then.

Consensus broker estimates for the year to 30 June 2015 are 10.2 cents per share. This puts them on a 2015 PE at $1.29 of 12.64 which in my view is very cheap for a bank growing EPS at a very healthy rate.

Consensus broker estimates for the year to 30 June 2016 are 11.0 cents per share.

Prospective Dividend Yield 2015.
We have 3.0 cents fully imputed in the bank as we know. I'm expecting 4.5 cents fully imputed for the final divvy so that's 7.5 cents fully imputed for the year. 7.5 / 0.72 = 10.417 cents gross or a gross divvy yield of 8.07%.

Prospective Dividend Yield 2016
The company has a good record of growing dividends so for those that think a minimum of one year ahead, (the writer included), we could estimate dividends next year at 8.5 cps fully imputed or 11.81 cents gross. This puts HNZ on a prospective 2016 gross dividend yield of 9.16%.

Obviously this is vastly higher than what you'll get out of any of the Australian owned banks, one or two of which only offer partial imputation with their more meagre dividends.

9.16% divvy yield and with the prospect of growing steadily in subsequent years is enough to get any dividend hound with any kind of vague idea of sniffing for a big steady feed absolutely salivating with delight.
It seems I need some help to turn the page so would some else please chime in with some worthy insights.

More content on how banks actually help their clients grow their business and help our older folks enjoy staying in their homes would be most welcome :)

Crikey this turned into a very long page, probably not helped by this post lol

Still we have yet to turn the page so its time for more debate...Are Banks Evil ?
Well that depends, banks are a necessary Evil but they don't have to be EVIL.


Are Banks Actually Evil, or Does It Just Seem That Way?

By John Maxfield | More Articles
January 25, 2015 | Comments (18)




It has been more than six years since the nation's biggest financial institutions crashed the global economy and had to be bailed out by U.S. taxpayers. However, this shouldn't be interpreted to mean Wall Street financiers are now on the straight and narrow.

Last week, the country's four largest banks by assets reported earnings for the final three months of 2014. Aside from Wells Fargo, it was an altogether dismal affair.

In addition to the widely publicized impact of lower trading revenue, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, and Citigroup all suffered from larger than expected legal expenses that weighed on their bottom lines.

The expenses weren't related to the behaviors that caused the financial crisis, which, it's worth pointing out, cost the banks tens of billions of dollars in legal fees and expenses over the last few years. They stemmed instead from new allegations of malfeasance, such as rigging foreign-exchange markets.

With this in mind, you'd be excused for wondering if the banks learned anything from the reputational damage they suffered during and after the crisis. And you'd also be excused for wondering, as I do in the presentation below, whether our biggest banks are actually evil, or if it just seems that way.


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So what makes a bank Evil ?

Some perspective. Do we see HNZ leveraging themselves by a factor of 800 in the derivative markets and making what amounted to a one-way bet on the derivative market such that if the bet failed there was no choice but to socialise the losses like a certain American bank did ?

Do we see HNZ packing up bunches of extremely dodgy loans and securitising them and encouraging Standard and Poors to rate there CDO's as AAA and sell them to an unsuspecting public that didn't understand those investments like another American Bank did and Forsyth Barr did with their Credit Sails CDO's they sold to unsuspecting elderly clients as a safe and sound fixed interest product !!

No we see fair and reasonable interest rates for the risks involved.

[Bobdn]

Hmm, well I was wondering what to do with my GNE dividends...will give it further thought before 16 April.

[winner69]

Nice summary.

Some of the left leaning socialist views expressed on this page are quite surprising from one that clearly knows the basics of capitalism 101 extremely well, not you mate this is directed at someone else.

Some could be forgiven for thinking a certain poster sold down their position and is trying to jawbone the SP down.

Hopefully this post turns the page...as much of this one simply isn't worth reading, opps did I really say that out loud lol

Damm it didn't. Okay... best I post some more content then.

I watched HNZ's elongated new reverse equity mortgage television advertisement this morning.

Leaving aside the issue of whether this makes a quick and punchy / cost effective campaign or not...

It certainly makes an emotional argument about helping older folks stay where they belong in their own homes where they feel most comfortable.

A left leaning anti capitalist would of course try and make the argument that such loans to old folks are a scandal seeing they're at greater margins that for regular bank loans and seeing as potentially they could make quite a significant impact on the next generations inheritance.

On the other hand a right thinking capitalist would make the case that they're providing a profoundly valuable service helping our seniors stay in their homes and enjoy a quality lifestyle or much needed medical services or whatever other thing an older client might like.

Remind me again who's equity in who's home is it and who's right is it to make their own decisions about spending some of it ?

Its all about one's perspective...

I think with all due respect to our friends apparently new found social conscience, references to shylock type lending rates are best directed at the pay day lenders charging exorbitant interest rates.

I wouldn't invest in one of those payday lending operations as a matter of principle and I would venture to suggest many shareholders in HNZ would find the suggestion that their bank is a shylock operation quite offensive.

Have we turned the page yet ?

No Okay...what else.

Well many will be somewhat perplexed by this weeks turn of events with Quadrant private equity's apparent placement of the stake it already had from its ownership of Seniors limited when their stake of 43m shares vested, came out of escrow.

A certain experienced accountant should have been alerted by the term "in specie" but bought anyway thinking the overhang had gone.

Lesson for the week, carefully read and digest the full content and meaning of company notifications.

So what to make of this peculiar arrangement ?

We see its been placed in two of quadrants funds which possibly suggests either:-

1. Its been placed there to stay more permanently than would have been suggested by the previous press release saying they were going to sell their stake

2. Quadrant don't think this is the opportune time to sell.

3. Both of the above.

It seems to me that the market was extremely well informed of their intention to sell down as expressed many months ago

To my mind its extremely rare for a major shareholder to signal their intent so many months in advance and the market very clearly anticipated a placement of some sort with most major institutions withdrawing their bids in recent weeks.

The subsequent effect on the SP was plain for all to see.

Seeing as the market was so primed for a placement and one didn't occur what do we make of this ?

Its appears to me Quadrant simply aren't prepared to sell into a placement that would probably have had to be made in the low $1.20 range to get the volume away and done and dusted.

At the minimum we can draw the conclusion reading between the lines, (those of us interested in such capitalist ramblings and theories that is), that Quadrant as an activist private equity fund with a long and well established and reputation, see value in HNZ at the current level..so maybe the silly old accountant who thought the overhang had gone and bought anyway, wasn't so silly after all :)

Surely this elongated post turns the page of some strange previous left wing ramblings.

No okay its time for an update and some fundamental analysis then.

Consensus broker estimates for the year to 30 June 2015 are 10.2 cents per share. This puts them on a 2015 PE at $1.29 of 12.64 which in my view is very cheap for a bank growing EPS at a very healthy rate.

Consensus broker estimates for the year to 30 June 2016 are 11.0 cents per share.

Prospective Dividend Yield 2015.
We have 3.0 cents fully imputed in the bank as we know. I'm expecting 4.5 cents fully imputed for the final divvy so that's 7.5 cents fully imputed for the year. 7.5 / 0.72 = 10.417 cents gross or a gross divvy yield of 8.07%.

Prospective Dividend Yield 2016
The company has a good record of growing dividends so for those that think a minimum of one year ahead, (the writer included), we could estimate dividends next year at 8.5 cps fully imputed or 11.81 cents gross. This puts HNZ on a prospective 2016 gross dividend yield of 9.16%.

Obviously this is vastly higher than what you'll get out of any of the Australian owned banks, one or two of which only offer partial imputation with their more meagre dividends.

9.16% divvy yield and with the prospect of growing steadily in subsequent years is enough to get any dividend hound with any kind of vague idea of sniffing for a big steady feed absolutely salivating with delight.
It seems I need some help to turn the page so would some else please chime in with some worthy insights.

More content on how banks actually help their clients grow their business and help our older folks enjoy staying in their homes would be most welcome :)

Crikey this turned into a very long page, probably not helped by this post lol

Still we have yet to turn the page so its time for more debate...Are Banks Evil ?
Well that depends, banks are a necessary Evil but they don't have to be EVIL.



So what makes a bank Evil ?

Some perspective. Do we see HNZ leveraging themselves by a factor of 800 in the derivative markets and making what amounted to a one-way bet on the derivative market such that if the bet failed there was no choice but to socialise the losses like a certain American bank did ?

Do we see HNZ packing up bunches of extremely dodgy loans and securitising them and encouraging Standard and Poors to rate there CDO's as AAA and sell them to an unsuspecting public that didn't understand those investments like another American Bank did and Forsyth Barr did with their Credit Sails CDO's they sold to unsuspecting elderly clients as a safe and sound fixed interest product !!

No we see fair and reasonable interest rates for the risks involved.

Good post Roger. Hope you don't delete it (ever)

Hope I didn't make you too grumpy, love Antonio

[winner69]

On weekends (and other times) I return to my socialist roots. All I want is a caring and compassionate world which is fair and equal to all. Sadly corporatocracy and the relentless pursuit of growth and ever increasing profits is not working towards this.

I still have my pile of Heartland shares. As mentioned before I am severely compromised morally and ethically by doing so, and in pushing them to do even better. However an accidental 'capitalist' has to do something with his riches eh. It will probably all end up be given away anyway.

For the sake of this thread I will leave it that. I won't share my experiences of Occupy camps or anti-trade agreement marches but will still share my fundamental insights on Heartland.

However one last thought - if somebody offered you a 12% to 15%pa guaranteed return forever you all as wise people would ask 'what's the catch'

[Beagle]

We're all good mate, I'm sure you already know I value your input on here...just thought some of your more left leaning implications merited a fulsome response.

I just thought I'd fill in a boring afternoon with some counter points and musings.

I don't feel conflicted with HNZ. People need banks and its a natural part of the process that there's multiple stakeholders involved, shareholders, depositors, lenders, employees.

The way HNZ operates seems fair and reasonable to me.

If you feel guilty about the side of you that doesn't mind making a profit from your capital, or like many others want an effective way of doing good for the needy and hungry perhaps investing some social capital in this might be a good way to make you feel better and balance the ledger a little. I like the fact that one's donation of kindness is not a hand-out per se, but its a way that your donation is recycled over and over again as previously dependent people get on their feet with their own micro enterprise and pay their loan back. 98% loan repayment rate is pretty impressive for micro enterprise in the developing world, wouldn't you agree !

What about putting a small portion of each HNZ dividend into Microenterprise ?
http://www.tearfund.org.nz/micro-enterprise/how-it-works.html

[winner69]

Quote Roger - A certain experienced accountant should have been alerted by the term "in specie" but bought anyway thinking the overhang had gone.

Lesson for the week, carefully read and digest the full content and meaning of company notifications

I didn't read the announcement at first. I was sucked in by reading the posts on this thread. I forgot that those who love a company only read and take on board what they want. They saw a SSH for one entity and the magical $1.27. Great news that was, overhang gone in one foul swoop and a good price as well. Must be right I assumed.

Lesson for the week, check the facts for oneself when apparent igood news is posted here. I was sucked in when I shouldn't been.

Paris to Roubaix race was bloody exciting. Best for years with the strongest guy winning .....and Sixer Southee hit a last ball FOUR to get his team home in the IPL ....and it's started to pour again

[percy]

I didn't read the announcement at first. I was sucked in by reading the posts on this thread. I forgot that those who love a company only read and take on board what they want. They saw a SSH for one entity and the magical $1.27. Great news that was, overhang gone in one foul swoop and a good price as well. Must be right I assumed.

Lesson for the week, check the facts for oneself when apparent igood news is posted here. I was sucked in when I shouldn't been.

Paris to Roubaix race was bloody exciting. Best for years with the strongest guy winning .....and Sixer Southee hit a last ball FOUR to get his team home in the IPL ....and it's started to pour again

So we read the announcement wrong.
We were wrong for approx. 3 hours !!
Yet it just shows the depth of talent here on sharetrader, that the full understanding of "in specie" distribution was picked up.
I therefore think our "social" network is working just fine,delivering us a platform to share information,views and ultimately, to make better informed investment decisions..

[winner69]

So we read the announcement wrong.
We were wrong for approx. 3 hours !!
Yet it just shows the depth of talent here on sharetrader, that the full understanding of "in specie" distribution was picked up.
I therefore think our "social" network is working just fine,delivering us a platform to share information,views and ultimately, to make better informed investment decisions..

Lesson for the week - many talented brains in a network will always get it right ... as long as there is a conversation in the first place, even if yjay conversation starts on the wrong tack.

[Beagle]

Well, HNZ now my largest holding after last weeks opportune ? purchase. Maybe I could get a loan from HNZ to rebalance my portfolio. Would that be "in specie" :)

Only joking...actually sitting on 13% cash in my portfolio and I need to see my portfolio / the market heading north again before Im prepared to consider any more deployment.

[dingoNZ]

I sold some HNZ over the past two weeks to redeploy capital into the ASX (with the NZD being so strong!). Still very happy with HNZ and will be investing further as capital permits :)

[gv1]

I sold some HNZ over the past two weeks to redeploy capital into the ASX (with the NZD being so strong!). Still very happy with HNZ and will be investing further as capital permits :)
Hi,
What are you buying in Aussie. Something has to be better than HNZ I guess?

[percy]

I sold some HNZ over the past two weeks to redeploy capital into the ASX (with the NZD being so strong!). Still very happy with HNZ and will be investing further as capital permits :)

I must admit I am in agreement with HSBC economist Paul Bloxham,who said;
"The NZ economy is out performing every other OECD economy.It was the fastest growing of 34 OECD economies in the last year.And we think that situation's going to continue this year as well.
The Australian economy,in contrast,is at the end of a mining boom.Mining investment is falling,and the rest of the economy is 'so-so'."
With fully imputed dividends, and a strengthen NZ dollar, I am happy to be over weighted with both Heartland and other NZ shares,

[Beagle]

I must admit I am in agreement with HSBC economist Paul Bloxham,who said;
"The NZ economy is out performing every other OECD economy.It was the fastest growing of 34 OECD economies in the last year.And we think that situation's going to continue this year as well.
The Australian economy,in contrast,is at the end of a mining boom.Mining investment is falling,and the rest of the economy is 'so-so'."
With fully imputed dividends, and a strengthen NZ dollar, I am happy to be over weighted with both Heartland and other NZ shares,

Agree 100%. If we don't go above par against the $A this year I'll be really, really surprised. Potentially could go well above par in the next couple of years. If we can't beat them in the cricket we'll beat them economically :D

[winner69]

The share price is stagnant as ...not good

Jeff needs to make some sort of announcement .....about anything but mention the words few million something's. or tell Forbar something so they can do another paper.

They need to keep the momentum going or else the share price will slowly die.

C'mon Jeff do something, that's what you paid for

[vorno]

The share price is stagnant as ...not good

...but its up 2cents today?

[vin]

Hopefully it gathers some momentum! Bought in again at 1.29. Very overweight :p

[Beagle]

Fundamentally Its a very cheap growth stock paying a prospective fully imputed gross yield of 9% for 2016, i.e. you're being paid very handsomely while you get your growth...such a stock is a very rare beast on the NZX.

[winner69]

...but its up 2cents today?

Prob close at 130 ....where it was a few weeks ago.

Since it reached 141 its been ad ever since ......we need to something to give the price a boost

Still on track to report $52m NPAT for the year. Somebody needs to prompt the likes of Forbar.

[K1W1G0LD]

Prob close at 130 ....where it was a few weeks ago.

Since it reached 141 its been ad ever since ......we need to something to give the price a boost

Still on track to report $52m NPAT for the year. Somebody needs to prompt the likes of Forbar.

Stop moaning W69, just buy some more!!

[Beagle]

We've certainly has a stellar run in January and that after a strong run-up from $1.00 at the time of the ASM on 31 October to circa $1.16 around Christmas.
A 32% SP gain in the last 3 months is a great result in anyone's books. Now all the good news is out there, unless there's some surprise I'm not aware of it won't surprise me if we see a quieter period in the next three months and this won't concern long term holders many of whom I suspect will be quite happy to collect a nice divvy and know the company is doing the business for the long haul.Its interesting to reflect back to the day of the ASM just 3 short months ago. Those there that I spoke too thought $1.10 - $1.20, (depending on how much they'd had to drink) was a fair SP target for the stock by the time of the 2015 ASM in late 2015 and I was in that range too at that time, to be honest.

HNZ is presently trading on 13.2 times forecast 2015 earnings of 10cps and this price seems fair and reasonable to me for now. I remain of the view that's is a great long term hold on the basis that the team can deliver EPS growth over time and as they continue to deliver on their promises and continue to build their already strong credibility some modest further PE expansion is possible.

Since the ASM I've developed my understanding of the company to the point where I can see it being around $2 in due course but in my view this will take quite some time, probably, realistically, 2-3 years. I guess I feel its perhaps appropriate that somebody sounds a little note of caution to any newbie considering getting on board on the basis of very strong recent SP gains. Rome wasn't built in a day and good things take time. I think anyone expecting another 32% SP gain in the next 3 months ($1.32 growing to $1.74), is highly likely to be disappointed.
On the other hand long term investors will I remain sure, be very happy with long term SP gains and will be happy to know they're being paid well to wait for long term growth with handsome fully imputed dividends, I estimate this year at 7 cps which equates to a gross divvy yield of 7.37% for 2015 based on a SP of $1.32 and I am sure those dividends will grow over the years ahead. Everyone has their own way of investing but for what its worth I won't let any stock get to a position of being worth more than 20% of my portfolio no matter how sure I am of their long term prospects.

It concerns me a little that the company appears to be considering accounting for its profit on the Harmoney investment ? While it was more than fair of them to note that their upgraded guidance excluded any increase in the value of their Harmony stake as a result of the Trade Me investment I struggle to see where they are coming from in terms of implying that it might be acceptable to account for theoretical gains in this non-listed associate company on the basis that this is in some way connected with operational profit ? I would have thought the team would have taken professional advice from their auditors rather than leaving this as an open question is a profit upgrade announcement. You been pushing them too hard Winner 69 ? :)

Some silly bugger called it fairly valued at $1.32 on 1 February and suggested gains would be much harder to come by in the next 3 months....but I'm calling it as undervalued now having ostensibly done nothing and tracked sideways for 3 months. Sitting right on the maximum 20% allocation in my portfolio...we are well positioned :)

[Bobdn]

Yes used my gne dividend (receive it tomorrow) to buy more at 1.29.

[Bjauck]

Some silly bugger called it fairly valued at $1.32 on 1 February and suggested gains would be much harder to come by in the next 3 months....but I'm calling it as undervalued now having ostensibly done nothing and tracked sideways for 3 months. Sitting right on the maximum 20% allocation in my portfolio...we are well positioned :)

$1.30 closing price yesterday plus 3c dividend ex 17th March = $1.33
That equates to a 0.75% return in 2.5 months or 3.6%pa. The price may still be in the doldrums but that is still better than an after-tax return on a bank deposit.

[percy]

At 1.54pm today $1.00 :)

Above posted 08/09/2014.
Seems so long ago??!!!
And since then we have enjoyed two very good dividends.
Wonder where we will be in another seven months?

[winner69]

...but its up 2cents today?

What happened today then

Stagnating share prices frustrate me ..... Hope Forbar get told something by Jeff on the quiet to get punters excited. a win for everybody, including Forbar if they generate enough interest.

Maybe get Edison to publish a report. They would see all the good things and come up with a valuation in excess of $2 .....maybe $3 knowing Edison.

[Beagle]

Patience grasshopper...Rome wasn't built in a day !

[tim23]

Bjauck - interesting logic 3c divvy but you are under water if you paid $1.40!

[percy]

Bjauck - interesting logic 3c divvy but you are under water if you paid $1.40!

Yet the yield looks rather healthy for those who brought in at under 70 cents!!!
Interesting logic??

[Bjauck]

Bjauck - interesting logic 3c divvy but you are under water if you paid $1.40! I actually paid 49c (for some HNZ shares) less than 3 years ago. I was calculating the return from Roger's post in which he referred to it being fairly valued at $1.32 on 1 February. On todays closing price of $1.29 plus the 3c divi, he would be quits or flat-lining.

Of course your period start and end dates are arbitrary. The most meaningful are your purchase dates and sale dates as the calculated return over that period would be actual realised. I don't intend to sell at this stage, but I still like to know how the actual return (cash divi) and unrealised return (Divi reinvestment and SP change) to date are faring.

[percy]

I actually paid 49c (for some HNZ shares) less than 3 years ago. I was calculating the return from Roger's post in which he referred to it being fairly valued at $1.32 on 1 February. On todays closing price of $1.29 plus the 3c divi, he would be quits or flat-lining.

Of course your period start and end dates are arbitrary. The most meaningful are your purchase dates and sale dates as the calculated return over that period would be actual realised. I don't intend to sell at this stage, but I still like to know how the actual return (cash divi) and unrealised return (Divi reinvestment and SP change) to date are faring.

49cents.Fantastic!!!!

[Beagle]

I actually paid 49c (for some HNZ shares) less than 3 years ago. I was calculating the return from Roger's post in which he referred to it being fairly valued at $1.32 on 1 February. On todays closing price of $1.29 plus the 3c divi, he would be quits or flat-lining.

Of course your period start and end dates are arbitrary. The most meaningful are your purchase dates and sale dates as the calculated return over that period would be actual realised. I don't intend to sell at this stage, but I still like to know how the actual return (cash divi) and unrealised return (Divi reinvestment and SP change) to date are faring.

My average price is well under $1.00...(most bought just after they got the credit rating upgrade at around 85 cents, but congrats for getting some so cheap.
My comments were intended to highlight that the quarter since the ASM from 31 October 2014 to 31 January 2015 saw a period of considerable market outperformance, up 32% from $1.00 to $1.32. Lot's of patience will be required for the next 32% in my opinion but I'm happy to hold long term. Flat quarter doesn't worry me in the long term scheme of things.

[Bobdn]

Yes, fantastic, and only a 1 in 30 chance (approx.)of HNZ defaulting over 5 years http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/regulation_and_supervision/banks/3498179.pdf

Still exchanged my GNE dividend for HNZ shares today but just like to keep it real.

[Bjauck]

Yes, fantastic, and only a 1 in 30 chance (approx.)of HNZ defaulting over 5 years http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/regulation_and_supervision/banks/3498179.pdf

Still exchanged my GNE dividend for HNZ shares today but just like to keep it real.

Banking today is probably better regulated than other businesses listed on the NZX. It would be interesting to see a figure put on the chance of default for all listed companies.

[dingoNZ]

1/30 isn't that low to be honest, I naturally assumed it would be lower... =\

[Beagle]

Banking today is probably better regulated than other businesses listed on the NZX. It would be interesting to see a figure put on the chance of default for all listed companies.

Indeed it would and additionally one could ponder the the likelihood of some of the blue chip stocks (trading on extremely elevated PE's of circa 30), defaulting on their high consistent EPS growth rates at some stage over the next five years supporting those lofty multiples... Anyway back to HNZ, what chance of another credit rating upgrade in the foreseeable future...far, far better than 1 in 30 I would suggest.

[percy]

Indeed it would and additionally one could ponder the the likelihood of some of the blue chip stocks (trading on extremely elevated PE's of circa 30), defaulting on their high consistent EPS growth rates at some stage over the next five years supporting those lofty multiples... Anyway back to HNZ, what chance of another credit rating upgrade in the foreseeable future...far, far better than 1 in 30 I would suggest.

Funnily enough I was wondering if and or when we may see another Credit rating upgrade.
Agree with your odds.

[winner69]

Another week almost over and HNZ share price hardly moved

This is getting depressing.

If Heartland are making more today then yesterday than they should be telling Forbar et al and arranging an upgrade

Slack Investor Relations

But may Jeff don't really care about shareholders .....should be earning his close to $2m rem

[couta1]

Another week almost over and HNZ share price hardly moved

This is getting depressing.

If Heartland are making more today then yesterday than they should be telling Forbar et al and arranging an upgrade

Slack Investor Relations

But may Jeff don't really care about shareholders .....should be earning his close to $2m rem
I can give you a truckload of other shares to give you a reason to be depressed but HNZ ain't one of them, count your blessings:cool:

[percy]

Another week almost over and HNZ share price hardly moved

This is getting depressing.

If Heartland are making more today then yesterday than they should be telling Forbar et al and arranging an upgrade

Slack Investor Relations

But may Jeff don't really care about shareholders .....should be earning his close to $2m rem

Must be time for you to go and talk to the Rata trees.
A good chance for you to practice your Maori pronunciation,as I expect all your questions for Jeff at the next AGM to be in Maori.!!!!

[vorno]

Another week almost over and HNZ share price hardly moved

This is getting depressing

...Hey Winner, guess what? Back up 2 cents!

[vin]

^ Ha, beat me to it

[Beagle]

Next we could have Maori tribes bidding up the SP because they're so impressed with the interim report, would that be good thing Winner69 ?

[Billy Boy]

Must be time for you to go and talk to the Rata trees.

Hey......
Stop taking the Pisss outa Rata trees
BB

[percy]

Hey......
Stop taking the Pisss outa Rata trees
BB
Don't mention the war!!!!
Those two Rata trees are named Snoopy and Percy.!!!

[Beagle]

Where is the snoop dog, haven't seen any activity from his acutely sensitive snout sniffing out problems lately ? That must mean that we're all hunky dory for setting sail northwards for $1.60 by year end then :)

[percy]

Where is the snoop dog, haven't seen any activity from his acutely sensitive snout sniffing out problems lately ? That must mean that we're all hunky dory for setting sail northwards for $1.60 by year end then :)

I think he has more than enough problems on his plate at present, with SCT in NZ, and ARI in Oz, eating away at his RBD nz profits.!!

[K1W1G0LD]

Only up 4 cents today................not very good, really!!

[vorno]

Only up 4 cents today................not very good, really!!

Oh yip, sounds like a pretty average day aye?!

[Snoopy]

Where is the snoop dog, haven't seen any activity from his acutely sensitive snout sniffing out problems lately ? That must mean that we're all hunky dory for setting sail northwards for $1.60 by year end then :)

Will have another look at HNZ at some point. The real problem I had with HNZ was the capital ratio requirements, since eased, by the Reserve Bank. So no need to watch the HNZ ball so closely at the moment. Have thrown my own NZ finance hand in with TNR (was DPC). Nothing wrong with HNZ now. Nevertheless I think from here on in, TNR will prove a better investment than HNZ, particularly for TNR bondholders. But I didn't want to upset the HNZ faithful by saying so - oh heck, I just did!

SNOOPY

[percy]

Will have another look at HNZ at some point. The real problem I had with HNZ was the capital ratio requirements, since eased, by the Reserve Bank. So no need to watch the HNZ ball so closely at the moment. Have thrown my own NZ finance hand in with TNR (was DPC). Nothing wrong with HNZ now. Nevertheless I think from here on in, TNR will prove a better investment than HNZ, particularly for TNR bondholders. But I didn't want to upset the HNZ faithful by saying so - oh heck, I just did!

SNOOPY
The on going Credit Ratings up grades for Heartland, and The Reserve Bank lowering Heartland's capital ratios, are just further proof of how wrong your Heartland posts were.
I would however agree with you that TNR's is a fine company,and an investment with a great future under Paul Bynres's very capable guidance .
I hold both HNZ and TNR.

[K1W1G0LD]

A cloud on the Golden horizon?? Maybe.........maybe Not??

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/67825744/reserve-bank-to-crack-down-on-reverse-mortgages

[iceman]

I think it is a positive if the RB takes interest in this form of lending and applies appropriate controls on it early. NZ does not want any cowboys to enter this market. It is and will be a very controversial method of lending and many families in line for inheritance from their parents will not like it.
I think it is a great way to allow asset rich cash poor older people to enjoy their sunset years using their hard earned assets. It will only ever be used by a fairly small proportion of older people that prefer to stay in their homes rather than go to retirement homes.


A cloud on the Golden horizon?? Maybe.........maybe Not??

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/67825744/reserve-bank-to-crack-down-on-reverse-mortgages

[percy]

A cloud on the Golden horizon?? Maybe.........maybe Not??

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/67825744/reserve-bank-to-crack-down-on-reverse-mortgages

Thank you for the link.
Just love The Reserve Bank moving to "PROTECT" ASB's and HNZ's position.
I think SBS also offer REL loans.[and TSB?]
From what I have read, Heartland, rather than being caught with houses where the owner has no equity left, have been finding the loans are being repaid a lot earlier than forecast.This has led to a smaller loan book and slower growth than expected.
Government agencies around the world are encouraging old people to remain in their home,by offering more home help services.It is felt people are happier,and stay in better health in their own home.I therefore see this as a growth sector.With the likes of solid banks offering RELs,I think we will see RELs a suitable product for asset rich,cash poor,property loving NZders.

[Snoopy]

The on going Credit Ratings up grades for Heartland, and The Reserve Bank lowering Heartland's capital ratios, are just further proof of how wrong your Heartland posts were.


That is a revisionist view on history you have on Heartland Percy.

The BBB- credit rating was because of the acknowledged risk of the Heartland loan portfolio by the credit rating agencies. The high capital requirement set for Heartland by the Reserve Bank was because the loan portfolio was so risky. A strong property market subsequently allowed Heartland to ease their way out of their dodgy Central Otago property lending. That in turn allowed the reserve bank to ease their requirements on capital held by Heartland and allowed the credit rating agencies to upgrade Heartland's credit rating to BBB. But, and here is the point, that recovery in the property market was never a given. If it hadn't happened, then Heartland would very likely have required a substantial capital injection from shareholders to keep it afloat.

The fact that a large capital injection was not required does not mean that my warnings that Heartland were at risk in the event of a the property market downturn should have been ignored.

SNOOPY

[winner69]

Oh yip, sounds like a pretty average day aye?!

Good one vorno

However the average day over the last 50 has been slightly negative .... Friday is an outlier

Reversion to the mean next week and price back to 130 or less

[winner69]

Must be time for you to go and talk to the Rata trees.
A good chance for you to practice your Maori pronunciation,as I expect all your questions for Jeff at the next AGM to be in Maori.!!!!

Good one percy .... the only thing is that at the rate the HNZ share price is going I wont be a share holder come next AGM

Ka kite anō. Kia pai tō rā

[winner69]

A cloud on the Golden horizon?? Maybe.........maybe Not??

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/67825744/reserve-bank-to-crack-down-on-reverse-mortgages

After being lambasted last weekend after mentioning greedy anti-social bankers and worse still mentioning Shylock I make no comment on this article

[vorno]

Good one vorno

However the average day over the last 50 has been slightly negative .... Friday is an outlier

Reversion to the mean next week and price back to 130 or less

You could always do the trader route, sell now at $1.33 and buy-back at $1.29!

[K1W1G0LD]

After being lambasted last weekend after mentioning greedy anti-social bankers and worse still mentioning Shylock I make no comment on this article

Chill W69, enjoy you're weekend............................it aint all bad news!!

[Snow Leopard]

Will have another look at HNZ at some point. The real problem I had with HNZ was the capital ratio requirements, since eased, by the Reserve Bank. So no need to watch the HNZ ball so closely at the moment. Have thrown my own NZ finance hand in with TNR (was DPC). Nothing wrong with HNZ now. Nevertheless I think from here on in, TNR will prove a better investment than HNZ, particularly for TNR bondholders. But I didn't want to upset the HNZ faithful by saying so - oh heck, I just did!

SNOOPY

The real problem that you had with HNZ was that you did not understand it.
The real problem that you have with HNZ now is that you do not understand it.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Snow Leopard]

That is a revisionist view on history you have on Heartland Percy.

The BBB- credit rating was because of the acknowledged risk of the Heartland loan portfolio by the credit rating agencies. The high capital requirement set for Heartland by the Reserve Bank was because the loan portfolio was so risky. A strong property market subsequently allowed Heartland to ease their way out of their dodgy Central Otago property lending. That in turn allowed the reserve bank to ease their requirements on capital held by Heartland and allowed the credit rating agencies to upgrade Heartland's credit rating to BBB. But, and here is the point, that recovery in the property market was never a given. If it hadn't happened, then Heartland would very likely have required a substantial capital injection from shareholders to keep it afloat.

The fact that a large capital injection was not required does not mean that my warnings that Heartland were at risk in the event of a the property market downturn should have been ignored.

SNOOPY

Histories are always written from a particular view-point usually to prove that particular view-point.

For the future:
There is ALWAYS Risk.

Much of it can be understood and quantified.

But there is always a possibility of a flock of Black Swans flying by and pooping on you.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Disc: Still like the Risk/Reward ratio for HNZ - but that is just one view-point.

[Beagle]

A few years ago my Mum at 80 years of age faced a long and very debilitating 18 month wait for a hip replacement through the public health system. She is of scotch ancestry, (where I get my tight arsed accountant habits from lol), so asked me what I thought of her spending the five figure sum to go private. I told her don't be so silly as to seek my approval, just go ahead and get it done. She's 85 now and leads quite an active life.

Older folks can go downhill very, very fast if they're ostensibly confined to a wheelchair for a significant period of time. This type of situation is where I see home equity release loans as absolute GOLD !! Mum has a few quid set aside so doesn't need one but I reckon HNZ providing this facility to older folks who do need it are really providing a very worthwhile facility.

[winner69]

Histories are always written from a particular view-point usually to prove that particular view-point.

For the future:
There is ALWAYS Risk.

Much of it can be understood and quantified.

But there is always a possibility of a flock of Black Swans flying by and pooping on you.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Disc: Still like the Risk/Reward ratio for HNZ - but that is just one view-point.

I read Against the Gods : The Remarkable Story of Risk by Peter Bernstein every now and again

Great book about risk in general ....from every day living to financial markets.

http://www.amazon.com/Against-Gods-Remarkable-Story-Risk-ebook/dp/B00BV6RTUG/ref=la_B000AP5Q4A_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1429419948&sr=1-1

[Snoopy]

The real problem that you had with HNZ was that you did not understand it.
The real problem that you have with HNZ now is that you do not understand it.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Not claiming to be a banking guru myself PT, never have done. I am surprised you dismiss the credit rating skills of the likes of Fitch and the risk capital requirement assessments of the Reserve Bank so curtly though. If you believe that the BBB- risk assessment of Heartland when it was set up was too harsh (it may have been) I would love to know why.

SNOOPY

[Marilyn Munroe]

Seeing as we currently in a historical thoughful mood my guess is the primary motivation for the merger was the need to hide the MARAC mess beneath the skirts of the CBS Canterbury balance sheet.

And the update of this; They got away with it.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[percy]

Seeing as we currently in a historical thoughful mood my guess is the primary motivation for the merger was the need to hide the MARAC mess beneath the skirts of the CBS Canterbury balance sheet.

And the update of this; They got away with it.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

The out come of the mergers and the recapitalization has provided all shareholders with a Bank to be proud of.
Nothing was ever hidden.Shareholders were told what was needed,and where the directors saw the company's future as a bank was.
Those who put the merger together had great foresight.
Capable people with vision.

[kizame]

The out come of the mergers and the recapitalization has provided all shareholders with a Bank to be proud of.
Nothing was ever hidden.Shareholders were told what was needed,and where the directors saw the company's future as a bank was.
Those who put the merger together had great foresight.
Capable people with vision.

I can't quite work out whether you are a guard dog,guarding your property, or a knight coming to the rescue of your kings' reputation.
But beware,eventually the black knight cometh.

[Beagle]

The out come of the mergers and the recapitalization has provided all shareholders with a Bank to be proud of.
Nothing was ever hidden.Shareholders were told what was needed,and where the directors saw the company's future as a bank was.
Those who put the merger together had great foresight.
Capable people with vision.

Well said mate. Perhaps those casting dispersions would care to list the stocks they believe are trading with better fundamentals and a better risk reward profile.
No stock is completely risk free or completly without blemish.

[percy]

I can't quite work out whether you are a guard dog,guarding your property, or a knight coming to the rescue of your kings' reputation.
But beware,eventually the black knight cometh.

I originally started posting on this thread as I thought people were posting factually wrong statements and misrepresenting the truth.
Some people continue to post misinformation ,which I and others correct.

[Snow Leopard]

I can't quite work out whether you are a guard dog,guarding your property, or a knight coming to the rescue of your kings' reputation.
But beware,eventually the black knight cometh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Snow Leopard]

Not claiming to be a banking guru myself PT, never have done. I am surprised you dismiss the credit rating skills of the likes of Fitch and the risk capital requirement assessments of the Reserve Bank so curtly though. If you believe that the BBB- risk assessment of Heartland when it was set up was too harsh (it may have been) I would love to know why.

SNOOPY

It is not the skills of Fitch or the assessments of the Reserve Bank that I have questioned.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[winner69]

Good one vorno

However the average day over the last 50 has been slightly negative .... Friday is an outlier

Reversion to the mean next week and price back to 130 or less

OMG, reversion to the mean works

Not enough liquidity to do the other suggestion you make vorno

[RTM]

Thanks Paper Tiger. I enjoyed that a lot.

However I am struggling to reconcile the blackknight portrayed.....with the definition in investopedia...and HNZ.
Somewhat confused !

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blackknight.asp

Enjoy your afternoon.
Cheers
RTM

[stoploss]

Well said mate. Perhaps those casting dispersions would care to list the stocks they believe are trading with better fundamentals and a better risk reward profile.
No stock is completely risk free or completly without blemish.

Roger is that the accountant coming out in you dispersions/aspersions ? :)

[winner69]

Black Knight licorice is very nice, yummy

[winner69]

Heartland made $11.0m in Q1 (September) and $12.5m Q2 (december)

So it looks like $14.0m plus in Q3 just gone and as things kick into gear $16.0m in Q4

Heck that's $53.5m for the full year

And Jeff wants us to believe that $46.0m is the answer .....what a (you can make up a word here)

He's playing games with the market / shareholders methinks. Otherwise he's not letting on that things aren't going to plan and the rhetoric in the half year announcement was jus PT that.

[Joshuatree]

Under promise,over deliver;way to go............​I hope

[winner69]

Under promise,over deliver;way to go............​I hope

But credibility goes out the window when guidance is so far out.

Guidance FY $46m - 9 months likely $37m

Only $9m in Q4 ....tell me another story

Even if the $37m wrong then current guidance is H2 is less than H1 ... That's not over delivering

[Baa_Baa]

Getting ahead of oneself would be suggesting results are already out which over performs the guidance, which they're not. If someone took their own advice, they would have sold the re-entry to the price channel, because they don't hold companies whose stocks are not appreciating and not be fretting about the current price going sideways or whether the CEO has a penchant for managing investors expectations.


But credibility goes out the window when guidance is so far out.

Guidance FY $46m - 9 months likely $37m

Only $9m in Q4 ....tell me another story

Even if the $37m wrong then current guidance is H2 is less than H1 ... That's not over delivering

[winner69]

Getting ahead of oneself would be suggesting results are already out which over performs the guidance, which they're not. If someone took their own advice, they would have sold the re-entry to the price channel, because they don't hold companies whose stocks are not appreciating and not be fretting about the current price going sideways or whether the CEO has a penchant for managing investors expectations.

Baabaa, thank you very much for the telling off, it made my day

I'm OK. Still no need to sell, just yet. Redoing the channel lines to incorporate all the price points (esp the $1.41 one which was 1 std) current price activity is still contained in the channel.

An ATR trailing stop is $1.32 but I seez nothing as Schultz says

Other problem I have is that volumes are so low these days not always easy to find a keen buyer .... brokers are not always on the sides of mugs like you and me.

So hopefully 132 today .... then up top 140 and beyond

Now back to stirring up Jeff and his team

[Beagle]

Well they're nicely in the channel so are a screaming BUY for astute value investors.

[winner69]

Well they're nicely in the channel so are a screaming BUY for astute value investors.

If this strong uptrend continues (from August last year) the next step up is to $1.50 / $1.60 over next month or two plus .......otherwise it goes into the dog box for me

Jeez $50m to $53m NPAT is worth more than $1.30 .....yes Roger?

[Joshuatree]

Yeah and stuff micro managing a stock I'm confident in and doing most things right in a glass three quarters full way.:scared:

What about the reverse mortgages ehhh are they getting ahead.

[Beagle]

If this strong uptrend continues (from August last year) the next step up is to $1.50 / $1.60 over next month or two plus .......otherwise it goes into the dog box for me

Jeez $50m to $53m NPAT is worth more than $1.30 .....yes Roger?

Going off the extremely positive tone in the half year report I think its clear they are being very, very conservative with their forward guidance for the full year.
One suspects when they actually announce the profit result in due course, (as well as issuing forward guidance for the 2016 year, HNZ are really good with forward earnings visibility like that), we'll see the price move materially higher.
Patience is an essential ingredient to any carefully crafted investment plan :)

[robbo24]

If this strong uptrend continues (from August last year) the next step up is to $1.50 / $1.60 over next month or two plus .......otherwise it goes into the dog box for me

Jeez $50m to $53m NPAT is worth more than $1.30 .....yes Roger?

The HNZ chart (http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/advchart/frames/frames.asp?show=&insttype=&symb=nz%3Ahnz&time=8&startdate=1%2F4%2F1999&enddate=4%2F16%2F2015&freq=1&compidx=aaaaa%3A0&comptemptext=&comp=none&ma=4&maval=50%2C100%2C200%2C300&uf=8&lf=1024&lf2=32&lf3=2&type=4&style=370&size=4&timeFrameToggle=false&compareToToggle=false&indicatorsToggle=false&chartStyleToggle=false&state=11&x=9&y=7) looks kind of like a chart pattern I learned of many moons ago called a flag (http://www.stock-trading-infocentre.com/images/bull_flag.jpg).

[vorno]

Well, it definitely looks as though a change is due.

[winner69]

The HNZ chart (http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/advchart/frames/frames.asp?show=&insttype=&symb=nz%3Ahnz&time=8&startdate=1%2F4%2F1999&enddate=4%2F16%2F2015&freq=1&compidx=aaaaa%3A0&comptemptext=&comp=none&ma=4&maval=50%2C100%2C200%2C300&uf=8&lf=1024&lf2=32&lf3=2&type=4&style=370&size=4&timeFrameToggle=false&compareToToggle=false&indicatorsToggle=false&chartStyleToggle=false&state=11&x=9&y=7) looks kind of like a chart pattern I learned of many moons ago called a flag (http://www.stock-trading-infocentre.com/images/bull_flag.jpg).

Do these flags suggest that this is going to happen ..... or am I only dreaming

[Joshuatree]

Going by the under promising I think its likely a zig is following the zag.

[winner69]

Percy (on another thread) Wonder when the Germans will wake up to Heartland Bank's 4.5% on call a/c.?

Still wonder why they have this high rate (maybe buying new business?) but then we forget that they aren't really a bank (in the traditional sense) but more of a finance company where paying high rates for money is the norm.

On their own admission (at least that of the head finance man at the time) becoming a Bank was just a marketing ploy which brought a bit more credibility in the eyes of punters. Better to say you are a Bank than having to get the likes of Dougal Stevenson or Colin Meads to say you are a good place to invest.

Maybe deep down they still have this finance company mentality?

[winner69]

Might try out Chelsea's Romesco recipe that appears in the latest Heartlander

[winner69]

Top companies with women on boards perform better, research finds


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/top-companies-with-women-on-boards-perform-better-research-finds-20150422-1mqsm2.html

Heartland NZ Limited 1 out of 7
Heartland Bank 1 out of 8

[iceman]

But we speak Maori which must count for a few points in political correctness. So we all good winner.


Top companies with women on boards perform better, research finds


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/top-companies-with-women-on-boards-perform-better-research-finds-20150422-1mqsm2.html

Heartland NZ Limited 1 out of 7
Heartland Bank 1 out of 8

[winner69]

Saw that ad on TV last night aimed at the oldies

Heart wrenching story until the For Sale sign is taken down and a happy ending. Well done Heartland Marketing team. Love the music that goes with it.

Wonder if it is getting the oldies interested? Hope so

They said HER stuff should get some momentum in H2, maybe this media is the trigger

[Beagle]

Yes.... upon reflection although on first viewing I found the advertisement elongated and wondered about the cost efficiency, I can see how this sort of "emotional approach" if that's the right term for it, might have considerable appeal to the target market. Overall management at HNZ impress me, a company that does what it says it will and continues to build a highly credible track record of growth.

[winner69]

Yes.... upon reflection although on first viewing I found the advertisement elongated and wondered about the cost efficiency, I can see how this sort of "emotional approach" if that's the right term for it, might have considerable appeal to the target market. Overall management at HNZ impress me, a company that does what it says it will and continues to build a highly credible track record of growth.

I would think that this sort of approach is the start of a long campaign with an evolving story and not just on TV but on other media.

Hecht Granny looked happy eh

[noodles]

Saw that ad on TV last night aimed at the oldies

Heart wrenching story until the For Sale sign is taken down and a happy ending. Well done Heartland Marketing team. Love the music that goes with it.

Wonder if it is getting the oldies interested? Hope so

They said HER stuff should get some momentum in H2, maybe this media is the trigger

Jeez, I nearly cried with happiness as the sign came down.

No doubt the TV version is shorter?

[ziggy415]

I would think that this sort of approach is the start of a long campaign with an evolving story and not just on TV but on other media.

Hecht Granny looked happy eh
So granny takes $100,000... to tide her over till she dies.....but she,s a tuff old bird and she lives till 95 years old....does this mean heartland gets no return on their $100,000 for maybe 20 odd years

[Harvey Specter]

So granny takes $100,000... to tide her over till she dies.....but she,s a tuff old bird and she lives till 95 years old....does this mean heartland gets no return on their $100,000 for maybe 20 odd years
No cash return but the interest will be accruing at a rate higher than normal mortgage costs.

[ziggy415]

No cash return but the interest will be accruing at a rate higher than normal mortgage costs.
so the HER portion of the business could be years away from recieving any money let alone make a profit...to me it just doesnt add up....throw in the peer to peer lending platform that will be slow to gain traction and heartlands profit may become a bit stagnant......i think they should stick to the consumer finance business,,,,....

[Beagle]

Taking Stock 23 April 2015 - Chris Lee


THE Heartland Bank executive Andrew Ford is no greenhorn, having had at least a decade in executive positions at Heartland and its predecessor, Marac Finance.


At Marac he was one of several senior executives who was let down by the company’s weak leader Brian Jolliffe and by what proved to be a two-tier board of directors, with one tier proving to be inept as well as weak.


Ford was part of the transition team that converted Marac into a successful focused small bank, well led by Jeff Greenslade, and today Ford has some responsibility for Heartland’s move into Home Equity Release Loans, or reverse mortgages as these loans used to be called.


Ford was quoted at the weekend as having been moved by the heartfelt correspondence Heartland has received from senior citizens who have taken out these loans to enable them to maintain their living standards, and stay in their houses, rather than be short of cash and forced to move.


It is easy to believe that the borrowers would record their gratitude for the spending money they have accessed at a time when housing price rises are leading to higher-valued estates but also leading to higher rates and insurances for the home-owners.


One of the Sunday papers sought last week to emphasise the interest rate cost of these home equity loans, now more than 8%, and expressed concern that a borrower might end up ‘’eating his house’’.


Indeed if Heartland lent $100,000 to a 60-year-old taking a mortgage over an $800,000 house, when the owner was 84 years old the house would be fully mortgaged, if the interest rate averaged 9% and the house price rise over the 24 years was nil.


Quite rightly the Reserve Bank would be frightened for Heartland’s future if it made such a loan, and would force Heartland to provide more capital to recognise a higher risk-weighting of these loans.


Of course the example and assumptions quoted – 60 year olds borrowing $100,000 for 24 years, no house price rises, interest rate 9% - are all chosen to produce a ridiculous outcome.


Home equity release loans are currently priced nearer 8%, borrowers begin their loans at ages nearer 75 than 60, the maximum amount to be lent is calculated with common sense, and lenders have discovered the average term of such a loan is eight years not 24.


The newspaper item was prepared on false assumptions, presumably to achieve a ‘’newsworthy’’ angle.


Andrew Ford will have been exactly right when he noted how much these loans have helped some people.


The loans are not intended to meet the needs of everyone.


Many retired people enjoy moving to smaller homes with smaller gardens, some enjoy moving to retirement villages, some have sufficient money to stay put and employ a gardener and a few choose to enter into home equity release loans. The equity in one’s home is available to be used as the owner sees fit.


My guess is that over the next 20 years, people will live longer and have better health, and dare I say it, governments will struggle to finance an ageing population’s expectations of living standards and healthcare.


In this environment, home equity release loans may become much better understood, and more regularly used.


One hopes that Sunday papers will eventually discover that banks and retired people rarely enter into stupid arrangements.

[winner69]

Hey Percy - that a brilliant piece you wrote for Taking Stock this week. Congratulations

You sorted the buggers out eh mate .....stupid media.

I reckon that ad on TV will do wonders and there will be really strong growth starting to come through this year ......might need to readjust my forecast UP

[Baa_Baa]

What are you saying Winner? Fess up, don't leave the punters wondering or in limbo.


Hey Percy - that a brilliant piece you wrote for Taking Stock this week. Congratulations

You sorted the buggers out eh mate .....stupid media.

[winner69]

Baabaa - have a look at the Scales thread ...... Chris Lee and Percy rumoured to be one and the same

[Baa_Baa]

Well Winner, I wondered if that was what you were saying, but better that you said it, than me, so thanks for that insight. Not sure how I would know really, whether a kindly well travelled bookseller generously sharing his views might be THE Mr Lee author of Taking Stock, or perhaps his equally insightful sidekicks, all of which I enjoy reading, as many do I suspect. The reports do seem insightful though and uncannily in tune with opinion, much of which is often shared here first.


Baabaa - have a look at the Scales thread ...... Chris Lee and Percy rumoured to be one and the same

[percy]

Hey Percy - that a brilliant piece you wrote for Taking Stock this week. Congratulations

You sorted the buggers out eh mate .....stupid media.

I reckon that ad on TV will do wonders and there will be really strong growth starting to come through this year ......might need to readjust my forecast UP

Hells Bells ,I think I have read too many of Chris Lee's articles!!! I am starting to think like him.!!! lol.
I do appreciate he has a better way of expressing himself than I do,The Heartland REL article was very well written,and gave a very good rounded view of RELs.
Roger thank you for posting it.

[kizame]

It looks as though HNZ could be starting its march upward (hope I havn't jinxed it) broken upward on the daily and weekly charts through the down channels. Just bought back in so lets see.
Wish I knew how to post both those charts.

[Master98]

It looks as though HNZ could be starting its march upward (hope I havn't jinxed it) broken upward on the daily and weekly charts through the down channels. Just bought back in so lets see.
Wish I knew how to post both those charts.
hope it is not dead cat bounce, I retain for HNZ PE12.5 is appropriate.

[kizame]

hope it is not dead cat bounce, I retain for HNZ PE12.5 is appropriate.

Looks absolutely nothing like a dead cat bounce,are you kidding me?

[winner69]

Top lawyer calls for more Asians on boards

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/68042718/top-lawyer-calls-for-more-asians-on-boards

Heartland Bank / Limited ............another fail

I fear the middle aged white male board with the notional female is just part of the Heartland culture

Nonetheless some interesting insights from Mai n that article. Like "It will be a challenge to work in a sector which is subject to so much disruption and fast-paced change. The challenge of demographic disruption is as important as technological disruption, especially in a super-diverse market like Auckland.

[Beagle]

Mai Chen is a very smart women there's no question about that but directors should be appointed solely based on merit and nothing else (including her call for more ethnic diversity).

[mis chief]

Mai Chen is a very smart women, there's no question about that but directors should be appointed solely based on merit and nothing else including her call for more ethnic diversity.

you were wise to edit the post and delete the piece about driving habits in Auckland! Sailing a bit close to the wind there.

Mai is a woman, not women.

[Cricketfan]

Mai Chen is a very smart women there's no question about that but directors should be appointed solely based on merit and nothing else (including her call for more ethnic diversity).

I completely agree about selecting people based solely on merit, but in her defence, she is specifying skills that asians can bring and reasons why they would be good for the business (e.g. "cultural intelligence and language skills", "businesses generally needed to have the ability to transcend borders because of growing urbanisation and globalisation").

So unlike in some cases where diversity is called for for the sake of diversity, here she's saying why it's good for business.

[Beagle]

you were wise to edit the post and delete the piece about driving habits in Auckland! Sailing a bit close to the wind there.

Mai is a woman, not women.

Thanks for saying it for me :D

[vorno]

What's this? a few days have passed us by without a single post! Quickly, someone post some stats!

[couta1]

What's this? a few days have passed us by without a single post! Quickly, someone post some stats!
Bear market depression setting in for the winter:eek2:

[vorno]

Bear market depression setting in for the winter:eek2:

What are you talking about?! I'm on my 2nd beer already!!

[RTM]

" ....interest income rose 6 percent to $832 million as the local lender grew its mortgage loan book 5 percent to $40.7 billion and business lending expanded 5 percent to $24 billion. Impairment charges on bad debts rose to $31 million from $4 million a year earlier, when the bank benefitted from provision recoveries."

From a report on Westpac. Food for some thought with respect to "Impairment charges on bad debt....etc".

Will be interesting to see if they give some detail as to the change from 31mil to 4mil, Have not looked as yet.

[macduffy]

I wouldn't read too much into the Westpac situation. The previous $4m charge was abnormally low as a result of some hefty provision recoveries in that period. The assessed quality of the book has been maintained with +90 day mortgage arrears slightly improved. Just don't mention the run away property
prices in Auckland and what effect a significant correction there would have!

[macduffy]

I wouldn't read too much into the Westpac situation. The previous $4m charge was abnormally low as a result of some hefty provision recoveries in that period. The assessed quality of the book has been maintained with +90 day mortgage arrears slightly improved. Just don't mention the run away property
prices in Auckland and what effect a significant correction there would have!

[Beagle]

HNZ's specific bad debt and general provisioning jumped considerably in the recent half year result. Despite that profit also jumped substantially.

[winner69]

Liked this bit from Westpac story

The New Zealand unit widened its net interest margin to 2.29 percent in the period from 2.28 percent a year earlier, as cheaper wholesale funding costs and improved deposit spreads offset competitive pressure in the mortgage market.


Hope Heartland does a bit better when they widen their margin

[percy]

i wonder if heartland are looking
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/fp-appliances-considers-selling-finance-unit-potential-buyers-emerge-bd-172257

Would be a great fit.
I would think for it to happen either Heartland would need to raise a lot of capital,or Haier would have to accept a lot of Heartland shares.I seem to remember early on Balance [where is he? ] felt a merger would be possible.

[ziggy415]

ANZ to sell loans worth $6.5 billion in dealer finance biz (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/04/us-anz-bank-divestiture-idUSKBN0NP0CY20150504)SYDNEY - Australia and New Zealand Banking Group on Monday said it plans to sell its Esanda dealer finance business, which includes A$8.3 billion ($6.51 billion) in loans to motor vehicle dealers.

another merger maybe

[macduffy]

The sale of Esanda has been an open secret for several months now. GE Finance was initially tipped as the most likely buyer.

[Baa_Baa]

Someone has already suggested Esanda is beyond the reach of Heartland, I can't recall who though it seems a reasonable supposition. If it is a realistic acquisition opportunity, how and why?

[kizame]

Paul Henry this morning, reverse equity loans were the topic with an AMP representative chipping in with his opinion,both recommending the elderly to stay away from them,and to downsize as an alternative.
It seems they may be pushing these loans uphill with this sort of negative publicity.

[ziggy415]

Paul Henry this morning, reverse equity loans were the topic with an AMP representative chipping in with his opinion,both recommending the elderly to stay away from them,and to downsize as an alternative.
It seems they may be pushing these loans uphill with this sort of negative publicity.
Paul Henry was quite scathing wasn,t he.....but then he,s not struggling to pay the rates and insurance on the pension.....I think there is a place for these motgages but not sure how fast the take up will be

[artemis]

One thing not mentioned by PH et al this morning was the situation of homeowners who would otherwise be leaving the property to the cats home. Not everyone has family or friends they want to leave their dosh to.

[percy]

Paul Henry this morning, reverse equity loans were the topic with an AMP representative chipping in with his opinion,both recommending the elderly to stay away from them,and to downsize as an alternative.
It seems they may be pushing these loans uphill with this sort of negative publicity.

Wonder what the AMP rep would say if and when AMP start offering them?
I would agree downsizing would be the better option,but that is rather missing the point.
The point is RELs suit people who wish to use their home equity to stay in their home,but otherwise can not afford to do so.
As I have previously posted, governments around the world are encouraging old people to stay in their homes,and are offering more services so that they will.NZders love affair with property makes RELs very much a growth sector country,and with the strong tailwind of an ageing population I see REL providers doing well.

[Beagle]

PH has his own perspective and earns a lot. You wouldn't expect AMP to advocate for HER as they're in the game of helping people to save for their retirement among other things.
There is a place for HER. A while back I gave the example of an elderly person needing a hip replacement...they could face an extremely painful and debilitating wait of 12-24 months through the public system and during that time while they are ostensibly immobile their general health could deteriorate quite substantially or Mr or Mrs Joe average public could raise a bit of money on their debt free home in Auckland worth an average of close to $800,000 and get on with the operation and back to enjoying a pain free enjoyable retirement.

[iceman]

Exactly percy. I think we all also agree that REL's will never be a suitable solution for a large proportion of senior citizens. But it is and will be an increasingly (but relatively small) important part of future solutions for many people that remain able to live on their own/couple and want to stay where they are most comfortable. This will often be close to great long time friends, family and a familiar and safe community.


Wonder what the AMP rep would say if and when AMP start offering them?
I would agree downsizing would be the better option,but that is rather missing the point.
The point is RELs suit people who wish to use their home equity to stay in their home,but otherwise can not afford to do so.
As I have previously posted, governments around the world are encouraging old people to stay in their homes,and are offering more services so that they will.NZders love affair with property makes RELs very much a growth sector country,and with the strong tailwind of an ageing population I see REL providers doing well.

[noodles]

Down-sizing in the last 5 years (in Auckland at least) would have been a terrible financial blunder due to the massive appreciation of house prices. A HER loan would have left the home owner with a hell of a lot more in assets and a more comfortable lifestyle. They did not mention that.

The fact that they dedicated 2 minutes to discuss the product really shows a lack of interest to look at the topic in any detail. Paul Henry thinks he is a financial adviser. What a joke!

[RTM]

I'm surprised anyone bothers to watch. Its light weight drivel, or at least the one I watched was.
Never again in our house. It amazes me that BBC, CNBC etc etc seem to be able to fill up hour after hour with meaningful news. Either from around the world or with a business focus. And yet we can't even fill up an hour or so productively...and even then want to talk about JK and an error of judgement, day after day. FFS !

Probably wrong thread. Apologies all.

[percy]

I'm surprised anyone bothers to watch. Its light weight drivel, or at least the one I watched was.
Never again in our house. It amazes me that BBC, CNBC etc etc seem to be able to fill up hour after hour with meaningful news. Either from around the world or with a business focus. And yet we can't even fill up an hour or so productively...and even then want to talk about JK and an error of judgement, day after day. FFS !

Probably wrong thread. Apologies all.

Spot on.!!!!

[Beagle]

I'm surprised anyone bothers to watch. Its light weight drivel, or at least the one I watched was.
Never again in our house. It amazes me that BBC, CNBC etc etc seem to be able to fill up hour after hour with meaningful news. Either from around the world or with a business focus. And yet we can't even fill up an hour or so productively...and even then want to talk about JK and an error of judgement, day after day. FFS !

Probably wrong thread. Apologies all.

He has a good day every now and again the 30th April was a good example. Excellent story about AIR N.Z's 75 year history and he had one of the longest serving employees on, a former CEO IIRC, with excellent footage of early Solent flying boat operations followed by an excellent segment on retirement saving's which was very informative....but yes like any lightweight free to air channel there's a fair bit of absolute rubbish in between the gems and then you have his giant ego to deal with which must surely be bigger than the planet Jupiter. That said I kind of like his extreme political incorrectness...its kind of refreshing in this day and age where political correctness has become so expected as the norm.
Anyway, sorry, I also digress...actually speaking of mind numbingly boring, that's exactly what the HNZ SP has become, just saying.

[RTM]

He has a good day every now and again the 30th April was a good example. Excellent story about AIR N.Z's 75 year history and he had one of the longest serving employees on, a former CEO IIRC, with excellent footage of early Solent flying boat operations followed by an excellent segment on retirement saving's which was very informative....but yes like any lightweight free to air channel there's a fair bit of absolute rubbish in between the gems and then you have his giant ego to deal with which must surely be bigger than the planet Jupiter. That said I kind of like his extreme political incorrectness...its kind of refreshing in this day and age where political correctness has become so expected as the norm.
Anyway, sorry, I also digress...actually speaking of mind numbingly boring, that's exactly what the HNZ SP has become, just saying.

I was quite hopeful as I also quite like PH, he was good to watch on election night, and one of the earliest to figure out what was going on in Hone's electorate. But pretty disappointed in what I saw.

With respect to HNZ SP....well....I can remember several periods where it was boring like this...and then slowly rose, seldom dropping back far.
To be honest...I'd be happy if all my bets were as boring as HNZ. Average buy around 88c.

Cheers.

[horus1]

Heartland is one of the few shares I would buy on the NZ market at present .,As for PH he is just a lacky for the Nat party . Turn him off

[kizame]

I'm surprised anyone bothers to watch. Its light weight drivel, or at least the one I watched was.
Never again in our house. It amazes me that BBC, CNBC etc etc seem to be able to fill up hour after hour with meaningful news. Either from around the world or with a business focus. And yet we can't even fill up an hour or so productively...and even then want to talk about JK and an error of judgement, day after day. FFS !

Probably wrong thread. Apologies all.

Actually I come home from work switch on the TV to wind down while having breakfast,and it's a good light hearted morning show,I actually like his humour.
Honestly you shouldn't take life so seriously you can't have a bit of a laugh.

BUT: was taken aback by the comments I thought,weren't well researched,especially when older people are so easily persuaded in a lot of situations like this,more care needs to be taken with financial comments over such a vast viewing audience.

[winner69]

There's this video from Good Morning show on TV

http://homeequityrelease.co.nz/

[Beagle]

Great advertorial...makes me want to buy more :)

[Baa_Baa]

Great advertorial...makes me want to buy more :)

I though it was very light on the important issues of, costs of the loan, what if you live too long and erode the whole home equity, how to get out of the loan, treatment of residual equity etc. I agree with an earlier comment about preying on the vulnerabilities of the elderly, though I wonder how many of them are the target audience. It wouldn't surprise me if many of the legitimate candidates for reverse mortgages have EPA'd their financial affairs and decisions, to the very heirs who will decide whether mummy and daddy's property value goes to them, or the bank.

[winner69]

I though it was very light on the important issues of, costs of the loan, what if you live too long and erode the whole home equity, how to get out of the loan, treatment of residual equity etc. I agree with an earlier comment about preying on the vulnerabilities of the elderly, though I wonder how many of them are the target audience. It wouldn't surprise me if many of the legitimate candidates for reverse mortgages have EPA'd their financial affairs and decisions, to the very heirs who will decide whether mummy and daddy's property value goes to them, or the bank.

It was a sales pitch BaaBaa

Only say what you want to.

Would be funny though if that Andrew guy came out said 'we are really preying on the vulnerability of som seniors, the more vulnerable the better it us for the bank'. Jeff would not be pleased.

[Baa_Baa]

Yeah, I noticed how the eyes were flicking back and forth reading the cue cards. Mum won't though, she'll just hear the lovely wonderful stories of the people so grateful for having given their house away to the bank.


It was a sales pitch BaaBaa

Only say what you want to.

Would be funny though if that Andrew guy came out said 'we are really preying on the vulnerability of som seniors, the more vulnerable the better it us for the bank'. Jeff would not be pleased.

[Beagle]

I though it was very light on the important issues of, costs of the loan, what if you live too long and erode the whole home equity, how to get out of the loan, treatment of residual equity etc. I agree with an earlier comment about preying on the vulnerabilities of the elderly, though I wonder how many of them are the target audience. It wouldn't surprise me if many of the legitimate candidates for reverse mortgages have EPA'd their financial affairs and decisions, to the very heirs who will decide whether mummy and daddy's property value goes to them, or the bank.

It is an advertorial mate. So Mrs Jean average granny should become immobile for 24 months while she waits for the public so called health system to fix her stuffed hip and while she waits and is ostensibly almost completely immobile and in serious constant pain she has all sorts of other health issues come on to her because of her immobility, e.g. circulation and blood clotting just so Jack and Jill kiddies can inherit the full value of her house...yeah that really makes good common sense.
Like all things concerning debt, the key is moderation.

[Sgt Pepper]

Heartland is one of the few shares I would buy on the NZ market at present .,As for PH he is just a lacky for the Nat party . Turn him off

What others interest you? I must admit the Sharemarket seems rather flat at the moment. Many of the forecasts e.g Air NZ being at 3.50 don't appear likely an time soon.

[Bjauck]

What others interest you? I must admit the Sharemarket seems rather flat at the moment. Many of the forecasts e.g Air NZ being at 3.50 don't appear likely an time soon.
I think Greece is hanging over global financial markets like the Sword of Damocles at the moment. Add to that, to a lesser extent, the upcoming UK general election, in which the Conservatives and Labour are neck-and-neck with a possibility of the SNP (who want a Disunited Kingdom) being part of a coalition. Plus there has been a mixed to poor reporting season from the big Aussies Banks.

[RTM]

Buggar !

From the Herald

"Valiant Homes had been working on 13 building sites but was put into liquidation and receivership earlier this year. The firm, at that time, owed $3.2 million to Auckland lender Savings & Loans as well as $325,000 to Heartland Bank, which had security over some vehicles and equipment."

[couta1]

Trading Halt

[blockhead]

Sold 18000 last week @ $1.30, will I be pleased or will I be p......d off after resumption of trading, likely to be the latter I suspect.

[percy]

Trading Halt

We live in interesting times!!

[noodles]

Trading Halt

It is a sell down of the Quadrant shares

[bonne vie]

Fisher and Paykel Finance arm Purchase possibly??

[Deej5]

The latter I HOPE.

[noodles]

The latter I HOPE.
I got a call from my broker asking me if I wanted any shares. So likely to be the selldown.

[percy]

It is a sell down of the Quadrant shares

Again????.lol.
Well last time it was just pass the parcel.!

[Xerof]

Nah, George Kerr has been appointed Chairman:D, hence the sell down offer

[percy]

Nah, George Kerr has been appointed Chairman:D, hence the sell down offer

Now you have me really worried, as all your posts on George Kerr have been right!!!!!!!!!! lol.

[Harvey Specter]

I got a call from my broker asking me if I wanted any shares. So likely to be the selldown.What price?

[777]

Well noodles was right.

Heartland New Zealand Limited ("Heartland") (NZX: HNZ) advises that it has
been informed by First NZ Capital Securities Limited ("FNZC"), acting on
behalf of Quadrant Private Equity Pty Limited ("Quadrant"), that Quadrant is
proposing to undertake a block trade in respect of the approximately 9% of
Heartland ordinary shares held by funds managed by Quadrant. Quadrant and
FNZC requested Heartland seek a trading halt until the block trade was
complete.

[Onion]

Well noodles was right.

Heartland New Zealand Limited ("Heartland") (NZX: HNZ) advises that it has
been informed by First NZ Capital Securities Limited ("FNZC"), acting on
behalf of Quadrant Private Equity Pty Limited ("Quadrant"), that Quadrant is
proposing to undertake a block trade in respect of the approximately 9% of
Heartland ordinary shares held by funds managed by Quadrant. Quadrant and
FNZC requested Heartland seek a trading halt until the block trade was
complete.

What do the smart people on here think this will do to the SP?

I've got an order in the system but if the SP is likely to drop I'll step back and wait for things to settle.

[ETC]

Who will it be?

I'm hoping one of the big four takes a slice. It could be very beneficial to HNZ if say Westpac had a strategic interest and funnelled business their way, similar to how ANZ uses UDC.

[stoploss]

What do the smart people on here think this will do to the SP?

I've got an order in the system but if the SP is likely to drop I'll step back and wait for things to settle.

IMO, it depends who the buyer is .If it was say one entity and they would likely want to buy more could be a big positive. If this gets spread around everywhere , probably short term negative . Say they get these away around 1.20 , some of the punters may be tempted to take some short term profits .... So if you keen on the stock maybe shave your order by 50 % and place 50 % lower to try and average in .

[belted galloway]

"Shares of Heatland New Zealand are in a trading halt as Quadrant Private Equity looks to double its stake in the bank formed from the merger of Marac Finance with Southern Cross and Canterbury building societies."

"The Australian private equity firm, via brokerage First NZ Capital, has put in a block order to buy 9 percent of the Christchurch-based lender, which will double its holding to 17.75 percent, Heartland said in a statement to the stock exchange. The move comes a month after Quadrant first took an 8.75 percent stake in the bank, buying 41.1 million shares at $1.27 a piece, or $52.2 million, substantial shareholder notices show."

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1505/S00201/heartland-in-trading-halt-as-quadrant-doubles-stake.htm

[ScrappyO]

"Shares of Heatland New Zealand are in a trading halt as Quadrant Private Equity looks to double its stake in the bank formed from the merger of Marac Finance with Southern Cross and Canterbury building societies."

"The Australian private equity firm, via brokerage First NZ Capital, has put in a block order to buy 9 percent of the Christchurch-based lender, which will double its holding to 17.75 percent, Heartland said in a statement to the stock exchange. The move comes a month after Quadrant first took an 8.75 percent stake in the bank, buying 41.1 million shares at $1.27 a piece, or $52.2 million, substantial shareholder notices show."

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1505/S00201/heartland-in-trading-halt-as-quadrant-doubles-stake.htm

Nice find...

[Harvey Specter]

Nice find...Not so sure. I think the article misinterpreted and got it back to front. The official release is :


proposing to undertake a block trade in respect of the approximately 9% of Heartland ordinary shares held by funds managed by Quadrant.

I interpret the held by funds to be that they are sell shares they hold. Also refer Noodles post above.

Re shareprice, depends who it goes to. If it is being offered to the likes of Noodles, expect some will be looking to short term trade it so it depends on what the discount is. Once the overhand washes through the market, the price should return to its normal trajectory. The likes of ACC would have been hold back knowing a placement was in the cards.

[Cool Bear]

"Shares of Heatland New Zealand are in a trading halt as Quadrant Private Equity looks to double its stake in the bank formed from the merger of Marac Finance with Southern Cross and Canterbury building societies."

"The Australian private equity firm, via brokerage First NZ Capital, has put in a block order to buy 9 percent of the Christchurch-based lender, which will double its holding to 17.75 percent, Heartland said in a statement to the stock exchange. The move comes a month after Quadrant first took an 8.75 percent stake in the bank, buying 41.1 million shares at $1.27 a piece, or $52.2 million, substantial shareholder notices show."

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1505/S00201/heartland-in-trading-halt-as-quadrant-doubles-stake.htm

Now, that is the other way round to what we all expected - the announcement does say a "

that Quadrant is


proposing to undertake a block trade


", it did not say buy or sell. And we all assume it is Sell

Oops!, the rest of the sentence :in respect of the approximately 9% of Heartland ordinary shares held by funds managed by Quadrant"
does indicated SELL

[Master98]

"NZX Regulation (“NZXR”) advises that, further to its previous announcement and the announcement released by HNZ this morning, the trading halt placed on Heartland New Zealand Limited ordinary shares (“HNZ”) will remain in place pending an announcement of the completion of a sale of shares by Quadrant Private Equity Pty Limited."

[biker]

"NZX Regulation (“NZXR”) advises that, further to its previous announcement and the announcement released by HNZ this morning, the trading halt placed on Heartland New Zealand Limited ordinary shares (“HNZ”) will remain in place pending an announcement of the completion of a sale of shares by Quadrant Private Equity Pty Limited."

Doesn't get much clearer than that.
Hope nobody gets and acts on the business 'news' from scoop.

[psychic]

Doesn't get much clearer than that

lol, what a cluster f. The NBR also report Quadrant as buying now.. Hilarious

[ziggy415]

Doesn't get much clearer than that
so quadrant buys and sells in a month and makes .......nothing...doesnt make sense to me

[stoploss]

Noodles said his broker called asking if he wanted any shares , so must be selling ? Noodles did you hear anything else ??

[Harvey Specter]

lol, what a cluster f. The NBR also report Quadrant as buying now.. HilariousNBR article is the same syndicated article. No actual reporting or fact checking by them unfortunately.

[Harvey Specter]

so quadrant buys and sells in a month and makes .......nothing...doesnt make sense to meThey didn't buy, they got them as part of the REL purchase didn't they. This is just them disposing of them as expected once the lockup period expired. Insto's would have been expected this.

[ziggy415]

They didn't buy, they got them as part of the REL purchase didn't they. This is just them disposing of them as expected once the lockup period expired. Insto's would have been expected this.
ah thanks harvey

[belted galloway]

They didn't buy, they got them as part of the REL purchase didn't they. This is just them disposing of them as expected once the lockup period expired. Insto's would have been expected this.

Would have to agree with this. Quadrant have sold down on many holdings in the last couple months, particularly as they come out of escrow.

[Beagle]

NBR article is the same syndicated article. No actual reporting or fact checking by them unfortunately.

Not too hard to actually read the NZX announcement and report on it accurately is it. :ohmy:

[gv1]

If its Quadrant... I was bit suspicious of them hence sold down earlier.

[Harvey Specter]

If its Quadrant... I was bit suspicious of them hence sold down earlier.If its quadrant, dont expect a big discount as market has factored in overhang. Once it is cleared, I expect the price to increase.

[Harvey Specter]

Not too hard to actually read the NZX announcement and report on it accurately is it. :ohmy:To be fair, most jouralists aren't paid enough to be accurate :scared:

[biker]

If its quadrant, dont expect a big discount as market has factored in overhang. Once it is cleared, I expect the price to increase.

Basically no discount I've heard.
Banks generally getting caned at the moment. Wouldn't expect HNZ to be unaffected so probably a good time for quadrant to exit if they can.

[blockhead]

Basically no discount I've heard.
Banks generally getting caned at the moment. Wouldn't expect HNZ to be unaffected so probably a good time for quadrant to exit if they can.

''Banks getting caned '' ???

What information have you been reading ?? http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/4109dfa3/bank-of-nz-first-half-cash-earnings-rise-4-5-as-lending-growth-drives-interest-income.html

ANZ was similar !

[biker]

[QUOTE=blockhead;571322]''Banks getting caned '' ???

What information have you been reading ?? http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/4109dfa3/bank-of-nz-first-half-cash-earnings-rise-4-5-as-lending-growth-drives-interest-income.html

Check out the CBA, ANZ and NAB share price graph. All down over 10% recently. Then again, I could have been reading Scoop 'news'

[Jantar]

The trade halt has been lifted and we appear to be seeing a slight lift in SP and depth. :)

[Cool Bear]

so, who is the buyer of the 41,114,516 shares at $1.30? Percy?

[dingoNZ]

so, who is the buyer of the 41,114,516 shares at $1.30? Percy?

probably 10 or more institutions, you'll see the crossing of them all through the next few days

[warthog]

Triangle with a stronger bias towards upside break?

[kizame]

so, who is the buyer of the 41,114,516 shares at $1.30? Percy?

I bought the whole lot,got sick of seeing the shareprice hanging where it is,so did something proactive.

Now !! Wo be tied anybody who lambasts My Bank on here.

[percy]

I bought the whole lot,got sick of seeing the shareprice hanging where it is,so did something proactive.

Now !! Wo be tied anybody who lambasts My Bank on here.

Absolutely splendid news.
I think you are now " extremely well positioned,"

[hummerh40]

Triangle with a stronger bias towards upside break?

flag and pennant? looks pretty good chartwise

[K1W1G0LD]

It seems Quadrant did ok out of HNZ share deal.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/68347970/heartland-shares-reward-aussie-investor

[couta1]

It seems Quadrant did ok out of HNZ share deal.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/68347970/heartland-shares-reward-aussie-investor They always seem to do well,they made a 100% plus gain on their Sum investment in 2 years and since then the share price has done stuff all, let's hope HNZ moves along a bit better in comparison after their sell down.

[vorno]

Here we go: http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/9c819b86/heartland-shares-rise-as-quadrant-sells-9-stake.html

[winner69]

flag and pennant? looks pretty good chartwise

Top of the flag pole is about 160 ..... raise that flag

[winner69]

It seems Quadrant did ok out of HNZ share deal.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/68347970/heartland-shares-reward-aussie-investor

One of the pitfalls of issuing undervalued/cheap shares to the vendor to buy things.

Quadrants 'bonus' really our money. But Quadrant won't be complaining
R
But then there was 'urgency' around the deal and this was the 'most efficient' way of doing it. That's Heartlands story.

[Harvey Specter]

One of the pitfalls of issuing undervalued/cheap shares to the vendor to buy things.If they had raised equity from existing shareholders it would have been at the same price (or a discount) so I dont see any issue. The alternative is to have a huge cash pool available for acquisitions which just isn't efficient.

[percy]

One of the pitfalls of issuing undervalued/cheap shares to the vendor to buy things.

Quadrants 'bonus' really our money. But Quadrant won't be complaining
R
But then there was 'urgency' around the deal and this was the 'most efficient' way of doing it. That's Heartlands story.

Your hindsight remains excellent.
Heartland's foresight meant they added another established business [diversified !] without having to spend 5 years developing a greenfield REL business.Clever,and issued shares as part payment,at NTA.

[winner69]

.........Heartland's foresight meant they added another established business [diversified !] without having to spend 5 years developing a greenfield REL business.Clever,and issued shares as part payment,at NTA.

Agree Percy, completely correct, a great acquisition

But that was not the point I was making

Top of the flag pole is 160

[Beagle]

They always seem to do well,they made a 100% plus gain on their Sum investment in 2 years and since then the share price has done stuff all, let's hope HNZ moves along a bit better in comparison after their sell down.

I agree that it seems Quadrant appear to be very astute investors and I think they did very well to get such a large stake offloaded at ostensibly no discount to the market price. I think upon refection they had a much larger stake in Sum as well as board representation and pushed management hard to execute growth. Management in that company appear to have now hit cruise control to some extent, and / or with the huge previous run-up in price maybe SUM was overpriced when they sold. On the other hand I think they would have had minimal if any input surrounding HNZ's business plan and few would try and make the case HNZ is overpriced at $1.30, some would perhaps suggest fairly priced for now, pending further earnings visibility.

I am sure there's one thing we all agree on. Its good to see the overhang gone and it will be interesting to see where the market prices HNZ how this "monkey" is off their back.

[ziggy415]

I agree that it seems Quadrant appear to be very astute investors and I think they did very well to get such a large stake offloaded at ostensibly no discount to the market price. I think upon refection they had a much larger stake in Sum as well as board representation and pushed management hard to execute growth. Management in that company appear to have now hit cruise control to some extent, and / or with the huge previous run-up in price SUM was overpriced when they sold. On the other hand I think they would have had minimal if any input surrounding HNZ's business plan.

Its good to see the overhang finally gone and I look forward to seeing where the market prices HNZ how this "monkey" is off their back.

does this mean the next heartland aquisition will have another monkey on our backs or will they tap shareholders for funds...

[Beagle]

does this mean the next heartland aquisition will have another monkey on our backs or will they tap shareholders for funds...

Good question and something that was raised at the last ASM. One shareholder strongly suggested that next time HNZ involve shareholders in any capital raising required for any planned acquisition.
The directors appeared to take him seriously so hopefully they will give shareholders the opportunity next time. They did explain that the shares issued to Quadrant, in their opinion was the most efficient and effective means to expedite that particular deal at the time. I think they got the message that shareholders want to be involved. I think they need to prove that deal is EPS accretive before going off on another hunting expedition.

[percy]

Good question and something that was raised at the last ASM. One shareholder strongly suggested that next time HNZ involve shareholders in any capital raising required for any planned acquisition.
The directors appeared to take him seriously so hopefully they will give shareholders the opportunity next time. They did explain that the shares issued to Quadrant, in their opinion was the most efficient and effective means to expedite that particular deal at the time. I think they got the message that shareholders want to be involved. I think they need to prove that deal is EPS accretive before going off on another hunting expedition.

We seem to forget Heartland have a history of successful mergers and acquisitions.
Heartland was in fact the result of merging three businesses.They then went onto acquiring PGW Finance.
I do agree most shareholders were very disappointed in the SPP, and directors, as you noted are well aware of this.
The only real way for a bank or finance company to grow is via acquisitions, as there appears to be little organic growth available in the sector.
Heartland are in an strong position,having companies accept Heartland's shares in part payment, and a very supportive shareholder base,ready to support any further capital raising.

[stoploss]

From Macq this morning "Interestingly we hear that there was limited local institutional participation in the deal suggesting the company may have attracted either offshore interest or a new cornerstone shareholder."

[Beagle]

From Macq this morning "Interestingly we hear that there was limited local institutional participation in the deal suggesting the company may have attracted either offshore interest or a new cornerstone shareholder."


That'll set the rumour mill alight. We wait with baited breath for the SSH notification. I am opening up a book on this...is it okay to be a bookie on this forum :lol:
AMP 3:1 Kiwibank 5:1 One of the Aussie banks 2:1 HSBC 6:1 Anyone other major institution taking more than 5% 3:2

[winner69]

Last year Heartland waited until August before announcing an earnings upgrade

I reckon things are going so well that they will be forced/compelled to do it earlier this year

End of May r early June seems Ok

[percy]

That'll set the rumour mill alight. We wait with baited breath for the SSH notification. I am opening up a book on this...is it okay to be a bookie on this forum :lol:
AMP 3:1 Kiwibank 5:1 One of the Aussie banks 2:1 HSBC 6:1 Anyone other major institution taking more than 5% 3:2

What odds on Suncorp,as I note Chairman Ricketts is a Suncorp director??

[horus1]

I picked up a few. I think they have been placed quite easily A good share in a high priced market, I will hold thru ups and downs.

[RTM]

What about a Chinese bank Roger ?


That'll set the rumour mill alight. We wait with baited breath for the SSH notification. I am opening up a book on this...is it okay to be a bookie on this forum :lol:
AMP 3:1 Kiwibank 5:1 One of the Aussie banks 2:1 HSBC 6:1 Anyone other major institution taking more than 5% 3:2

[percy]

I picked up a few. I think they have been placed quite easily A good share in a high priced market, I will hold thru ups and downs.

With a bank there is always ups and downs,but banks seem to been able to move recover from any setbacks quickly,and have a great capacity to pay increasing dividends.
We also have the extra security of Heartland having to report to The Reserve Bank,and to a Credit Rating agency.I don't think any other NZ listed company offers this level of security.

[robbo24]

Calm down Winston ;)

Everyone just calm down.

[Beagle]

^^ Everyone is pleased the overhang is gone and there's no harm in a bit of light hearted speculation IMHO.

[kizame]

That'll set the rumour mill alight. We wait with baited breath for the SSH notification. I am opening up a book on this...is it okay to be a bookie on this forum :lol:
AMP 3:1 Kiwibank 5:1 One of the Aussie banks 2:1 HSBC 6:1 Anyone other major institution taking more than 5% 3:2

What!! You leave out my bank?

I bought the shares! CBDPRK Bank, Central Bank of the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea.
Very powerful, I will bring the profit and shareprice of your dreams, or else!!!

[RTM]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/HNZ/announcements/264147

I guess this is where some of the shares have gone. Good to see a Director increasing his holding by this amount, 3.8Million shares.
I suppose he has good access to finance.

[Harvey Specter]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/HNZ/announcements/264147

I guess this is where some of the shares have gone. Good to see a Director increasing his holding by this amount, 3.8Million shares.
I suppose he has good access to finance.Is this a beneficial holding? - looks like he holds 48m shares so over $60m worth!

[percy]

Is this a beneficial holding? - looks like he holds 48m shares so over $60m worth!

Latest lot, he only had $200 change out of a $5mil note""!!!!!
Yes great seeing him as a director taking his holding to over 10%.
A strong vote of confidence in Heartland.

[Harvey Specter]

Latest lot, he only had $200 change out of a $5mil note""!!!!!
Yes great seeing him as a director taking his holding to over 10%.
A strong vote of confidence in Heartland.So it is all his? He's not on the NBR richlist (yet) but his holding alone should see him there next yer.

[K1W1G0LD]

Latest lot, he only had $200 change out of a $5mil note""!!!!!
Yes great seeing him as a director taking his holding to over 10%.
A strong vote of confidence in Heartland.

Greg Tomlinson , is one very savvy businessman (and a nice guy too)........and to take such a high stake he obviously knows the Bank is going to remain a good performer .

[winner69]

Didn't Tomlinson thru Impact Capital underwrite the bail out cap raising?

Like percy he got a lot of his shares at 50 cents odd

[percy]

So it is all his? He's not on the NBR richlist (yet) but his holding alone should see him there next yer.

And then progress steadily year after year up that list..

[percy]

Didn't Tomlinson thru Impact Capital underwrite the bail out cap raising?

Like percy he got a lot of his shares at 50 cents odd

Yes he was one of the original cap raising underwriters.I think at the time someone here thought he was "wholesaling" a parcel for George Kerr.Turns out Tomlinson is a very highly regarded business person,and appears to share the other directors' pride in Heartland.

[Xerof]

He eventually proved himself to be a smarter investor than Kerr. He got shafted with the first two underwritings (88 and 65, I think) and from what I heard privately at the time, was mightily pissed off with his 'mate' when the price collapsed to 35 cents. He got the last laugh however, when he took advantage of the forced sale required by Kerr to cover the FMA's demand that Kerr's inter-entity 'loan' be repaid. IIRC he picked them up near 50, along with other astute investors (P Carter was one of them, I think) and the course for the share price has never looked back since that particular fog lifted.

As was said at the time, couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, and it was meant to apply to both parties:p

I have never met him and don't claim to know him at all, but I think he made his early money in healthcare and/or retirement villages, or perhaps it was mussels.......

[Beagle]

That's what I call a serious vote of confidence by a director.

[winner69]

Tomlinson started off with mussels and then retirement through Qualcare.. A lot of his current effort with Impact Capital

Your directors profile

http://www.heartland.co.nz/team/3/hnz-board-of-directors/41/greg-tomlinson.aspx