Snakk

[Balance]

Given Handley's success and history in the mobile space, I have no reason to doubt his judgement in this area. He was thinking about mobile advertising long before many others were.

Anyway like Couta says, most SHs probably don't have a lot to lose, but a winning bet should have a good payoff. I don't understand why people who clearly aren't interested in investing in Snakk focus so much of their time on it...

You clearly are in the camp which only want positive hype type postings. Suits Snakk and your purpose?

Simple - because this is an open forum and there are those of us who reserve the right AT ALL TIMES to provide balance to the hype machinery out there.

As for most SHs don't have a lot to lose, $1m is still $1m.

If Derek is so confident about Snakk, why is he selling and so snakkily?

Remember that this is a Team B company - profit alongside the planet and people!

[Longhaul]

If Derek is so confident about Snakk, why is he selling and so snakkily?

Remember that this is a Team B company - profit alongside the planet and people!

Maybe his car broke down. To be honest I personally don't care, it's not a significant amount and is not setting of any alarm bells. The opportunity still is what it is.

Your ridiculing of the B Team is just sad. Would you rather business owners didn't care about social responsibility?

[Balance]

Maybe his car broke down. To be honest I personally don't care, it's not a significant amount and is not setting of any alarm bells. The opportunity still is what it is.

Your ridiculing of the B Team is just sad. Would you rather business owners didn't care about social responsibility?

No point talking social responsibility - action is what matters.

And the action on Snakk tells you what?

Pol Pot and Hitler also talked a lot about peace and social responsibility? :D

[axe]

You will find that institutional, professional and fund investors watch this very closely.

The reasons are obvious - especially in a start-up company like Snakk where the promotors got their shares for bugger all after selling the hype to those who chose to believe.

Comes down to conviction and commitment.

If the Chairman and other directors are quick to sell and take their gains, why do you want to be the sucker who believe their hype and buy from them?


What about XRO. http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/xero-raises-60m-us-investors-ck-133254. Are investors alarmed by a capital raising only for the startup guys to trim their holdings?

"Xero is my largest individual investment and trimming my shareholding is something I've done simply to restore a bit of balance in my portfolio after Xero's share appreciation in 2012," Mr Morgan says in a statement.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/sam-morgan-trims-xero-holding-below-5-stock-charts-record-highs-bd-134184

[Balance]

Have you read his book Balance?

Haha - for what purpose?

I have met many like Derek over the decades - some talk, some act. Some talk and act. Some act and talk. Some talk and talk.

Which one do you think he is after reading the book?

I prefer to see their actions, rather than listen to their talk.

[Balance]

I think you should read it to better understand who ypu are talking about. very interesting how pieces come together...

Better things to do, Moose.

You obviously read the book - did it give you insight into Snakk? Why he backdoor listed Snakk? Why he did not agree on a lockup of promotors' shares for 1 year or two or three? Why he is now selling?

Genuinely interested.

[Balance]

I think you're needed more on NZO right now, they're wondering where you are after yesterday's usual stuff up.

Haha - took the mushroom Noggers there a long time to figure out who was making the real risk free gains there.

[Balance]

To be fair to Handley, he made the point very clear at the AGM that SNK makes decisions based on what is best for shareholders over the long term. In this industry he said this meant 2-3 years. We will find out in a few weeks how their revenue is tracking, in the meantime if you still believe SNK has potential, then topping up is an option.

2-3 years?

He is already selling down before 1 year!

Don't try to bull**** some of us, ok beacause you will get caught out.

Best way of making sure you do not get caught telling a lie is never to tell one in the first place.

[axe]

If you read the XRO thread, yes alarm bells did go off for some people when XRO did that capital raising and founding shareholders sold down. However you need to understand the context of what that (and subsequent) capital raisings were all about. It undoubtedly put XRO in a better place, positioned for growth, and in addition directly contributed to creating wealth for XROs shareholders. Since the capital raising you refer to XROs SP has increased 7 fold.

What has the sell down of founding SNK shareholders done for current shareholders?


I'm sorry but I just see the two as polar opposites axe!

So in XRO's case it did not matter that the founders trimmed their holdings in the long run because the company was well positioned for growth?

So as a comparison if you believe SNK is well positioned for growth then there is nothing to worry about, however if you do not think SNK is well positioned for growth.......then panic?

[Harvey Specter]

So in XRO's case it did not matter that the founders trimmed their holdings in the long run because the company was well positioned for growth?NO. IN XRO case, the founders had been invested for years and had hung in there for a phenomenal increase in share price such that they were asset rich, cash poor. They sold their shares as part of a capital raising to bring in new strategic investors at a large enough level for them to be meaningful, while keeping the dilution at a minimum.

Handley on the other hand discretely sold out on market a small amount (the amount was insignificant to his wealth so why bother. there was plenty of liquidity already so that isn't a reason) within a year of listing while shareholders were complaining that other 'founding' shareholders were dumping on the stock.

[whatsup]

Seadragon price of 9 or below. Lets see how low she goes eh?

Moos, SEA nine cents, are you sure of that ? now that would be faaaaaaaantaaaastic !!

[Balance]

haha maybe, but not likely. Plenty of big buyers out there coming out between 11 and 12 cents. Charts in limbo right now, unsure of where to go. Baring good news, I'd say down is least resistance.

Moosie, it's retail buying vs promotors' selling. No signs of institutional interest whatsoever or else, Derek would have sold his shares like Xero via placements.

So who's buying? Retail investors sucked in by the hype :

- Derek appearing in news media all over the place - talking like Colin Reynolds (Chase), Eric Watson etc
- how he is making millions,
- part of the Team B with Richard Branson,
- Twitter original shareholder etc etc.

You will be surprised how many retail investors have been buying in $25,000 lots but have no clue beyond the media coverage what Snakk actually does and how the original shareholders (including Derek) who got their shares at 0.5c are busy selling out - while hyping the company up.

Many of these investors do not even read the NZX website or any of the announcements. If they do, they have no clue what some of the announcements actually mean.

[000831]

read the annual report and other announcement. cannot understand its business seems the company only care about sales growth, rather than the return to shareholders. If it grows the revenue by 2000000% annual and still negative return to its shareholders, why we should buy it? No value creates.

[ari]

DEJA VU..........return of the Watson day's with Aquaria21 and IT Capital, hyped up in most bars & restaurants. I think one of them got up to .35c......then crashed and burned, lots of money lost and I'm still learning!

[blackcap]

DEJA VU..........return of the Watson day's with Aquaria21 and IT Capital, hyped up in most bars & restaurants. I think one of them got up to .35c......then crashed and burned, lots of money lost and I'm still learning!

haha yes those were the days. Aquaria 21 still exists on the NZ market (I think) but has had a few new names and now operates under a different guise.

[Blue Horseshoe]

haha yes those were the days. Aquaria 21 still exists on the NZ market (I think) but has had a few new names and now operates under a different guise.

Sea Dragon.

[blackcap]

DEJA VU..........return of the Watson day's with Aquaria21 and IT Capital, hyped up in most bars & restaurants. I think one of them got up to .35c......then crashed and burned, lots of money lost and I'm still learning!

haha yes those were the days. Aquaria 21 still exists on the NZ market (I think) but has had a few new names and now operates under a different guise.

[ari]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11187754

Handley, the new guru on everything noble ... Yeah right!

[winner69]

I hope people have connected the dots I have alluded to for a long time now...

Ah, finally got what connecting dots is about

http://www.familyfunshop.com/moosedotfinal.pdf

[jonu]

I hope people have connected the dots I have alluded to for a long time now...

Well Moosie, as chief SNK cheerleader, are you standing for the Dotcom party in Napier? Are you joining the party party? If not your cup of tea it would appear you now have issues with both Sorenson and Handley.

[blah]

his actual piece is up:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11187659

never knew he was an adjunct executive professor at AUT... not sure he deserves such a fancy title

[Balance]

As true as from the first day it was penned - 'Birds of a feather flock together. You can tell the true character of a person by the company he keeps.'

[Xerof]

As true as from the first day it was penned - 'Birds of a feather flock together. You can tell the true character of a person by the company he keeps.'

rumour has it, he will soon be known as Derek Dotcodotnz.....

[Harvey Specter]

rumour has it, he will soon be known as Derek Dotcodotnz.....apparently he is waiting for DotKiwi to become live

[Balance]

Anyone have any idea what a merger would do to the company? Seems two very seperate entities with little in common. Just another way to offload shares like the listing of Snakk was for seed investors?

All you need to know is that Derek and Sorehead (and others no doubt) are offloading shares as fast as they possibly can. What does that tell you?

[Harvey Specter]

Anyone have any idea what a merger would do to the company? Seems two very seperate entities with little in common. Just another way to offload shares like the listing of Snakk was for seed investors?
Merge with who?

[winner69]

Merge with who?

Feels like you have to speak a secret language around here Harvey

They prob talking in their language a 'merger' between KD new company and SNK to avoid kd going thru a listing process

[Balance]

I was hinting at this many months ago. Whether anyone picked up or not is another thing (seems only one person guessed correctly looking back at the other thread).

Anyone want to try and answer the question in all seriousness?

Seriously, Moose, who cares?

All you need to know is that if it is value enhancing or positive, Sorehead and Derek would be buying - not selling.

A snake + a freeloader = ???

[jonu]

How could a publicly listed company "merge" with a private company? Surely one would have to acquire the other. Seeing as we are on the SNK thread I presume you are alluding to SNK and Dotcom in your opaque way Moosie. Doesn't make sense if Dotcom & Sorenson are such great mates as you have previously alluded to. Sorenson wants out. Handley wants at least partially out. Hell maybe the rats in the bilges want out. If Dotcom is looking for a backdoor listing there are genuine shells sitting there without turning round the Titanic to accommodate him. Handley's arms length cheerleading says enough for me. If you want to shake up NZ politics you don't need to hide behind a XXXXL sized German to do it. Interesting to see him take a couple of swipes at Colin Craig too. Where does this leave him on the spectrum? Certainly not centre left or right. Can't see him being extreme left. Somewhere between Nats and Conservatives? ACT? Shudder

[Harvey Specter]

I was hinting at this many months ago. Whether anyone picked up or not is another thing (seems only one person guessed correctly looking back at the other thread).

Anyone want to try and answer the question in all seriousness?i thought you had identified another company to backdoor list Mega into.

In my opinion it would be very unlikely mega would be backdoor listed int SNK. For a start it would probably require a 75% vote. Second, why would they be selling out if they knew something - much better to use another shell where they can issues shares to themselves cheap pre listing. And hasn't DGH said he wants to start lots of companies, not form a mega conglomerate.

[jonu]

So acquiring it is then. Makes me wonder why Sorenson sold out of Snakk, only to get back in (he is a Director of Baboom)? Just double dipping?

Don't tempt Handley like that, he will get into politics (ie try everything once/create and flee).

Notice that Baboom is owned by Mrs Dotcom, his associate who was also arrested and a shady company located in Luxembourg. Tax haven much?

Moosie of what substance are you partaking?

[Balance]

Moosie of what substance are you partaking?

Handley's snakk oil?

Look at the hand signals?

The squeeze is on and Moose is only starting to feel it?

Sorry, Moose - couldn't resist it. :D

[winner69]

Good to hear handley has no connection with any kd ventures

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/why-kim-dotcoms-internet-party-good-nz-ck-150740

In the comments


I asked Handley if he had any association with Sorensen, or any connection to Baboom or any of Dotcom's other ventures.

He messaged: "no Sorenson has ever been a Director of any company I've been involved in + i don't have any links w any Dotcom ventures."

[nextbigthing]

It's getting a bit off topic but here's a nightmare scenario - Kim Dotcom keeps promoting his political party and gains some traction. Just prior to the election he releases his 'evidence' against John Key - enough to discredit National by 5% of votes when the left wing media hammer it to uneducated voters. Just enough people vote for Kims party seeing him as a 'fresh honest face in politics' that he ends up holding the balance of power in a merry coalition including the beloved Mana party and the Greenbours. Kim Dotcom ends up changing the politcal governence of this country and furthermore becomes part of it.

:scared:

[jonu]

It's getting a bit off topic but here's a nightmare scenario - Kim Dotcom keeps promoting his political party and gains some traction. Just prior to the election he releases his 'evidence' against John Key - enough to discredit National by 5% of votes when the left wing media hammer it to uneducated voters. Just enough people vote for Kims party seeing him as a 'fresh honest face in politics' that he ends up holding the balance of power in a merry coalition including the beloved Mana party and the Greenbours. Kim Dotcom ends up changing the politcal governence of this country and furthermore becomes part of it.

:scared:

Chilling indeed. By the by Nextbigthing, you're not implying people who don't vote National are "uneducated" are you?

[silu]

Article of interest:
http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/06/in-app-ads-fastest-growing-sector-of-mobile-advertising/

discl. hold small parcel

[nextbigthing]

Chilling indeed. By the by Nextbigthing, you're not implying people who don't vote National are "uneducated" are you?

Yes. :cool:


Just kidding. I am saying that uneducated voters are probably easily influenced by dramatic news articles written by left leaning reporters sympathetic to Dotcom.

Anyway..... Back to Snakk

[Balance]

Question is, is Snakk capitalising on this market? Might fire off an email tomorrow...

Of course.

Handley has backdoor listed Snakk especially for his chief cheerleader, allotted shares to himself at 0.5c and is now busy dishing them out to the eager buyers.

[blocker3]

Balance ,If I also met you one day I'm buying you a camera as so you can update and expand your photo collection of Derek . :)

[Harvey Specter]

Good to hear handley has no connection with any kd ventures

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/why-kim-dotcoms-internet-party-good-nz-ck-150740

In the comments


I asked Handley if he had any association with Sorensen, or any connection to Baboom or any of Dotcom's other ventures.

He messaged: "no Sorenson has ever been a Director of any company I've been involved in + i don't have any links w any Dotcom ventures."


So Handley is playing above board, Sorenson is gone for good and we can really on the "natural" growth of Snakk to propel the company along then? Bit of a sigh of relief.

I can't wait to see the announcement they should bring out tomorrow because of all this!Further info:
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/01/media-hoodwinked-another-undisclosed-association-kim-dotcom/
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/01/handley-caught-lying-connections-kim-dotcom/

[etrader]

Sorehead sold down and has moved over to vmob so they would be more likely to tie up if anything

[Balance]

I'm more confused than a senior girl on prom night. the reports I hear are that he is definitely discussing something and Sorehead is pushing for an announcement, but then he quasi says no, and stuff doesnt fit together and Sorehead sold out and and and...

Let's see what the company says (hopefully soon). if something is in the works and Handley has said no then there's going to be trouble...

Would not take Handley's words for what they are - read his PR spun replies to any query and it's clear that he is no straight arrow when it comes to discussing his connections.

Birds of a feather do flock together.

[blocker3]

Interesting the NBR have just downsized the article Dotcom & photo's of Derek Handley.

A new Dotcom article is there in is place with a new photo of Kim Dotcom for members only to read.

CHECK IT OUT...........

[silu]

Interesting the NBR have just downsized the article Dotcom & photo's of Derek Handley.

A new Dotcom article is there in is place with a new photo of Kim Dotcom for members only to read.

CHECK IT OUT...........

You tell us?

[blocker3]

Silu I am not a member of NBR. What I was trying to say the original article got changed fast. Cheers

[Balance]

Interesting the NBR have just downsized the article Dotcom & photo's of Derek Handley.

A new Dotcom article is there in is place with a new photo of Kim Dotcom for members only to read.

CHECK IT OUT...........

Don't jump at shadows.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/why-kim-dotcoms-internet-party-good-nz-ck-150740 - yesterday's news.

NBR has to make a living so new (as in brand new) articles will always take precedence.

[Harvey Specter]

Silu I am not a member of NBR. What I was trying to say the original article got changed fast. CheersIts still there in full (its an opinion piece from an external), just downgraded from the front page.

Will need to sort out an NBR subscription this year I think, esp as NZHearld is thinking of going behind a paywall (i know which one I would prefer to pay for).

[blocker3]

Don't jump at shadows.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/why-kim-dotcoms-internet-party-good-nz-ck-150740 - yesterday's news.

NBR has to make a living so new (as in brand new) articles will always take precedence.

Noted Balance

Cheers

[silu]

Silu I am not a member of NBR. What I was trying to say the original article got changed fast. Cheers

Ah. I was confused of what you meant by "downsized".

[blocker3]

Ah. I was confused of what you meant by "downsized".

Hi Silu. What I meant by downsized is when you go to the NBR page there is a photo of Kim Dotcom.

Underneath that is a line that reads " Why Kim Dotcom Internet Party is good for NZ".
This downsized line represents the original article, when you click on it

I hope that makes sense
Cheers

[whatsup]

Hi Silu. What I meant by downsized is when you go to the NBR page there is a photo of Kim Dotcom.

Underneath that is a line that reads " Why Kim Dotcom Internet Party is good for NZ".
This downsized line represents the original article, when you click on it

I hope that makes sense
Cheers

With all of this "reported " " NEWS " re Dot Bubble SNK's s p has held up remarkable well -for a Monday.

[etrader]

Update out can't read yet but a positive story would be good

[Jasemc]

Update out can't read yet but a positive story would be good


Sounds positive asx listing planned.

[Harvey Specter]

Company also putting forward micro-loans too. My cousin is involved in this so I know it makes a real difference to many lives. Good on them!I assume this is interest free - given this is a loss making company, is this a good use of funds (how liquid is the 'investment').

Gets them social cred though I guess.

How much will a dual list cost?

[axe]

I assume this is interest free - given this is a loss making company, is this a good use of funds (how liquid is the 'investment').

Gets them social cred though I guess.

How much will a dual list cost?

"As part of our treasury management strategy, in December we invested a small
portion of our treasury funds to the MicroDreams Foundation in the form of an
interest bearing-loan."

Not interest free.

[mrjeems]

Is it strange that they're saying their sales are positive now? Does "happy" mean they have surpassed expectations or are just on track...
Good to see that they released this info to calm peoples fears about the share transfer etc. And I'm all for companies actively making a difference in the world. If only there were more companies that did that :)

[Minerbarejet]

Great to see the market has responded to wonderful news and gone up .01. Outstanding.

[Longhaul]

The Asia Pacific technology company ranking shows we are continuing to make
significant growth strides. This recognition will help legitimise our status
in the countries we are considering as part of our regional expansion
strategy.



This and the dual listing are very interesting. Asia is clearly in their sights.

Will be very interested to find out what Q3 revenue actually was. I was hoping for ~$3m but my gut tells me somewhere between $2m - $2.3m will be closer to the mark. All comes down to what can be inferred from this statement - "a definite increase in activity based on the same quarter in the previous year".

[Balance]

Great to see the market has responded to wonderful news and gone up .01. Outstanding.

Market no doubt now aware that any 'positive' news is followed by Derek or others feeding them with stock.

"There is no question there are exciting times ahead with rich potential for
Snakk, and we look forward to sharing these with you as they unfold."

Question - if it is so great, why is Derek selling?

No mention at all of Derek selling his shares - just the rah rah rah of him transferring shares to charity, with the proviso that there will also be private placements of his shares.

[whatsup]

S/HOLDER: SNK: Snakk Shareholder Update - January 2014 12:29p.m.
SNK
20/01/2014 12:29
S/HOLDER

REL: 1229 HRS Snakk Media Limited

S/HOLDER: SNK: Snakk Shareholder Update - January 2014

Dear Shareholders,

Snakk is continuing to reach impressive milestones, with a busy three months
planned for the company's fourth financial quarter ending March 2014.

Asia Pacific Technology Fast 500

Last month, Snakk was ranked the 62nd fastest growing technology business in
the Asia Pacific Technology Fast 500, and we are one of 16 New Zealand
companies to make the top 100 on the list. In November you may recall we were
named the 6th fast-growing company in the Deloitte's New Zealand Fast 50.

The Asia Pacific technology company ranking shows we are continuing to make
significant growth strides. This recognition will help legitimise our status
in the countries we are considering as part of our regional expansion
strategy.

Q3 Revenues (October - December 2013)

While it is too early to provide you the numbers, the management team is
pleased with the company's third quarter sales, having ended 2013 on a
positive note. The lead-up to Christmas has always been our busiest time and
this year has been no exception. Our team worked through the holiday break
and noted a definite increase in activity based on the same quarter in the
previous year.

We will update you further when we release our unaudited revenues for our
third financial quarter in early March 2014.

ASX Dual Listing

As we plan our options for Snakk's next market entry, and with Australia as
our primary revenue market, the Board is currently considering a dual listing
on the ASX. Listing in Australia, where 95% of our revenue is generated and
there is strong demand for tech stocks makes sense at this point in the
company's growth.

Not only will it make it easier for our Australian partners and customers to
purchase shares; it will also add greater regional and global credibility to
prospective investors and the markets we move into next.

Impactful Treasury Management - MicroDreams Foundation

As part of our treasury management strategy, in December we invested a small
portion of our treasury funds to the MicroDreams Foundation in the form of an
interest bearing-loan.

MicroDreams is a microfinancing organisation helping Pacific Island
businesses and entrepreneurs become sustainable and successful by extending
purpose-oriented micro-loans throughout Pacific Island microbusinesses run by
women. This small percentage of our treasury funds is being used to make a
significant difference to the livelihoods and communities of these people and
in countries that have deep links to New Zealand.

The Snakk Board and management believe that business growth and success is
about doing well financially, delivering shareholder and employee value,
while at the same time doing social good and making a wider impact in the
community.

Snakk is being built from the ground up to keep growing this way, and this
initiative is just one of the efforts the team is behind, in line with our
internationally-recognised B Corp certification that was awarded to the
company in 2013.

Chair Completes Initial Share Transfer to Foundation

You may have noticed that our Chair and Co-Founder Derek Handley completed
the first tranche of a gift of 2 million shares toward the development of his
personal charitable foundation in an off-market transaction as per his
previous guidance at the Snakk AGM in August 2013. Derek has indicated he
will transfer approximately 10% of his Snakk holdings to his foundation, a
range of other charities and private placements to investors during 2014 with
more news to come on what the activities and social impact goals will be.

Derek remains a significant investor and is committed to the success of the
company, providing significant strategic governance as well as hands-on input
in his role as Chair, an investor and Co-Founder.

The Rise of Smart Screens

This month many media articles are focused on 2014 tech trends. Analysts,
bloggers, journalists, as well as technology and marketing enthusiasts are
writing about the rise of mobile device diversity (including wearable
technologies); mobile apps and cloud services; the role of native advertising
(versus the banner), the privacy implications of the latest technologies
available to marketers; and the "Internet of Everything" (connected
televisions, cars and appliances, all with smart screens).

We continue to closely assess significant strategic opportunities and
investments across the broader smart screen sector. There has been some
speculation on social media that Snakk has been contemplating undertaking an
imminent strategic acquisition. The Board wish to confirm to the market that
this is not in fact the case, and Snakk is not currently considering any
prospective live acquisition opportunities. As has previously been
reiterated, we continue to explore and seek strategic investments and
opportunities as an ordinary course of our technology portfolio and regional
expansion strategy.

There is no question there are exciting times ahead with rich potential for
Snakk, and we look forward to sharing these with you as they unfold.

Thanks,

Mark

ENDS

Media:
Julie Landry, 021 895 098, Julie.Landry@snakkmedia.com

Investors:
Malcolm Lindeque, Company Secretary, 021 464 392, investors@snakkmedia.com,
www.snk.co.nz, www.twitter.com/snakkir


BEST PART IMHO IS THAT 95% of revenue is generated in Aust hence the reason for listing there, great move IMHO .

[Harvey Specter]

Not interest free.I failed reading comprehension at school - my bad.


Is it strange that they're saying their sales are positive now? Does "happy" mean they have surpassed expectations or are just on track...
Good to see that they released this info to calm peoples fears about the share transfer etc. And I'm all for companies actively making a difference in the world. If only there were more companies that did that :)Compare to WYN disclosure that they had meet forecast growth. In a high growth company, doing better than last year does not mean much.


BEST PART IMHO IS THAT 95% of revenue is generated in Aust hence the reason for listing there, great move IMHO .Why does 95% come from Australia, seems overly reliant on one country. Compare to VML which is making sales over the globe. Is SNK a global play or is it just trying to win the Autralasian market.

Disc: hold a v. small amount. sorry for the negative posts ;)

[jonu]

High volume, could be start of uptrend if the big boys can keep their hands off the sell button. Market has had "fair value" @ 12 cents for quite some time now. 15.3 highest trade recently, looking for a double top with breakthrough there.

The "Big boys" have already said they have no intention of keeping their hands off the sell button. In fact it's hard to criticise them, they have been quite open with their intentions!

Have just browsed through Tom Bower's biography of Branson. Sobering read. Branson hasn't sued him, although he did initiate proceedings prior publication and then withdrew when the author got backing from his publisher. Anyone caught up in the cult of personality style of entrepreneurship should have a look at it. The happy go lucky larrikin image takes a bit of a beating.

[jonu]

I'll be happy with $2.2M in 3Q revenues.

I shall add that to my read list jonu. Handley's book was a bit too fluffy for me, but great insight into what makes him tick.

You read anything into Sorenson, the huge invesror in VML? If not suggest you do. For good reason we cheered when he departed Snakk...

I think Sorenson exited SNK and invested in VML because he saw a better opportunity. Not much different from most investors. And no, you moaned your furry ass off when he left SNK.

[jonu]

And you're not concerned at all with his track record?

Who am I, his mother?

[Nigel]

Could be. The internet is an interesring place!

Nice work Moosie. I laughed out loud at that one :)

[Longhaul]

Anyone know how long it would take to dual list on the ASX? How much work is involved with this?

[Balance]

Quite a fair amount and not before March. Take a look at how long it took to XRO and SUM up there. the company obviously sees benefits in dual listing as a) increased liquidity, b) more focus on its "home-turf" and c) a fair(er) value on par with its ozzie cousins.

Dreams are free.

[goldfish]

Market no doubt now aware that any 'positive' news is followed by Derek or others feeding them with stock.

"There is no question there are exciting times ahead with rich potential for
Snakk, and we look forward to sharing these with you as they unfold."

Question - if it is so great, why is Derek selling?

No mention at all of Derek selling his shares - just the rah rah rah of him transferring shares to charity, with the proviso that there will also be private placements of his shares.

I gotta say that was my first thought to, snakk puts out news so derek and his buddies can sell more shares.

[blackcap]

I gotta say that was my first thought to, snakk puts out news so derek and his buddies can sell more shares.

Funny you mention that. I thought that too. Reminds me of companies with a lot of hype to drive shareprice etc. Plus SMS, ITC are some very good examples of this. I can remember in the office when the CEO of a listed company made the statement that he thought ITC were a great company because of their frequent "market updates". We all know where ITC ended up.

[winner69]

I gotta say that was my first thought to, snakk puts out news so derek and his buddies can sell more shares.........and realising they are running out mugs in nz we need to offer them to Aussies (he says with tongue in cheek)

[Balance]

Moosie can only buy so many! :D

Great you have a sense of humor, Moose!

Because Sorehead and Derek are laughing all the way to the bank - selling their 0.5c entry price shares to you at 12c.

[winner69]

Moosie can only buy so many! :D

So moose buy no more .... Will need to find willing tassie tigers and wombats and wallabies won't they

[couta1]

I'm in for a fun time, not a long time Balance. You should know that by now!

My sense of humour is well tuned. I give Sparky a run for his clown money every ince in awhile ;)
Ditto re fun time

[Balance]

There is no question that mobile apps and ads are taking off and growing exponentially.

In common with all high growth industries however, will be a large number of players - existing and new, attracted by the growth and the opportunities.

Many of these players will fall by the wayside.

Remember the ISPs? Remember the mobile phone players?

Question then - who are the players in the mobile ads industry and what are their competitive edges?

Using revenues as a guide is dumb analysis as market share can be bought. Any assessment of a company's prospects must be based upon an understanding of the underlying profitability of the revenue streams. This is why forecasts are important or a clear understanding of a company's overall strategy.

Example - 42 Below never made a cent in profit but it's strategy of market share to attract a buyer was clear from day 1. Rakon made profits but lost it all as its competitive edge was eroded when GPS went mainstream.

The thing to note is that during a company's initial ramp-up to scale and profitability, cash burn is a feature so capital has to be conserved. Market appetite has to be managed rto facilitate more capital raising.

Over to you, Moose (ex- Chief Derek Handley cheerleader).

[Swiftideas]

...laughing all the way to the bank - selling their 0.5c entry price shares to you at 12c.

Bakery Boys had their fingers in Snakk via the Hyperfactory. They've been in deep since before 2008 - http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/42-below-founders-seek-dough-bakery-venture-35670


Sorenson & Seadragon bought into Snakk in 2010 - only a few months after the Hyperfactory sale went through - risky times for Snakk hence the price - https://nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/204214


Early stage investors take highest risk and so deserve their profit. What is the actual problem here?

[Schrodinger]

Still not convinced about the margins on this business.

Can someone confirm that they run a service style business with a tech platform bolted on? Do they get a revenue share option for campagins or are they just commissioned to produce a campagin and get paid for that service.

[Schrodinger]

There is no question that mobile apps and ads are taking off and growing exponentially.

In common with all high growth industries however, will be a large number of players - existing and new, attracted by the growth and the opportunities.

Many of these players will fall by the wayside.

Remember the ISPs? Remember the mobile phone players?

Question then - who are the players in the mobile ads industry and what are their competitive edges?

Using revenues as a guide is dumb analysis as market share can be bought. Any assessment of a company's prospects must be based upon an understanding of the underlying profitability of the revenue streams. This is why forecasts are important or a clear understanding of a company's overall strategy.

Example - 42 Below never made a cent in profit but it's strategy of market share to attract a buyer was clear from day 1. Rakon made profits but lost it all as its competitive edge was eroded when GPS went mainstream.

The thing to note is that during a company's initial ramp-up to scale and profitability, cash burn is a feature so capital has to be conserved. Market appetite has to be managed rto facilitate more capital raising.

Over to you, Moose (Chief Derek Handley cheerleader).

Good points Balance. I am more interested in their future profits than their current revenues. This is a completely different model to Xero which can benefit hugely from economies of scale.

[Harvey Specter]

Bakery Boys had their fingers in Snakk via the Hyperfactory. They've been in deep since before 2008 - http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/42-below-founders-seek-dough-bakery-venture-35670

Early stage investors take highest risk and so deserve their profit. What is the actual problem here?Which is why one of the business bakery boys can afford a LaFerrari

[Radler]

The update seems to have sparked a few buyers into action this morning

[blackcap]

wonder where the extra sellers at 12 came from?

[Harvey Specter]

...and nothing cones of it because some one can't keep their finger off the trigger. Someone needs a lesson in hype management and how to benefit from it...Too many of them competing to dump. Imagine what a positive 100% increase in shareprice article on back of announcement could have done for volume.

[J R Ewing]

The big question is the smart money buying or is the smart money selling.

Well we know Handley is selling, so I figure that the smart money must be buying :)

[000831]

It is a kind of company that smart money would avoid in buying.

[Balance]

Bakery Boys had their fingers in Snakk via the Hyperfactory. They've been in deep since before 2008 - http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/42-below-founders-seek-dough-bakery-venture-35670


Sorenson & Seadragon bought into Snakk in 2010 - only a few months after the Hyperfactory sale went through - risky times for Snakk hence the price - https://nzx.com/companies/SEA/announcements/204214


Early stage investors take highest risk and so deserve their profit. What is the actual problem here?

Have a close look at Snakk's financials before the $6m was raised from the market.

Bugger all money was put into Snakk and early stage investors do not sell out normally until company has traction and reached certain milestones.

What are Snakk's milestones?

[robbo24]

Have a close look at Snakk's financials before the $6m was raised from the market.

Bugger all money was put into Snakk and early stage investors do not sell out normally until company has traction and reached certain milestones.

What are Snakk's milestones?

I wouldn't touch it even with your barge pole, Balance.

It's about as greasy as a big sweaty Kim Dotcom.

[couta1]

I wouldn't touch it even with your barge pole, Balance.

It's about as greasy as a big sweaty Kim Dotcom.
You can't win if your not in now can you and some rides are fun:cool:

[Balance]

You can't win if your not in now can you and some rides are fun:cool:

On a lopsided playing field, you expect to win?

When the selling is all done, watch for the news flow to stop and like Aquaria 21 (remember the last great corporate hero, Eric Watson, was going to list FlyingPig.com via a backdoor list), who will be left holding the creaming baby?

[robbo24]

You can't win if your not in now can you and some rides are fun:cool:

There's too much greasiness with SNK.

I alwayss beware the irrational actor claiming to act out of greater good, for starters.

I don't care to be sold down the river for the good of business run by Polynesian women whether Handley thinks it's good or not.

[blockhead]

Too Jucy for Blocky

[robbo24]

Don't ya just love HPF investments today? Boys must need another Ferrari by the looks of it.

I'm sure you're at the front of the line to assist them in their endeavour by buying up large Moosie

[etrader]

Mossie after my past attempts they only replied when they were about to float nothing since

[winner69]

Already received an email from Mark Ryan saying he'll reply overnight. now that's fast!
.

......Not as fast as this afternoon


But suppose mark is a busy man

[Harvey Specter]

Already received an email from Mark Ryan saying he'll reply overnight. now that's fast!Just out of interest, do they know you are Moosie?

[Balance]

Already received an email from Mark Ryan saying he'll reply overnight. now that's fast!

Haha - probably wondering which tail they will feed you this time to swallow with the bones?

[Balance]

As I said before I will post the email I sent along with the reply so that everyone can judge for themselves.

Like the last one where they told you it was not possible to lock Sorehead and others into a period holding arrangement?

When it is clear now to all that it's because Derek Handley could not wait to sell his 0.5c shares too!

That was a BIG tail, Moose - from an Alaskan spotted blowfish.

[blocker3]

I met Mark Ryan at the shareholders meeting last year. He is a very switched on man. He will reply. Give him space !!!!

Cheers

[Balance]

They must be laughing their heads off as they sip their tenth glass of afternoon DP champagne at the eager beavers piling in after yesterday's update.

This is too easy!

Gotto keep feeding the ducks when they are quacking for more!

[blocker3]

They must be laughing their heads off as they sip their tenth glass of afternoon DP champagne at the eager beavers piling in after yesterday's update.

This is too easy!

Gotto keep feeding the ducks when they are quacking for more!

Are you drunk

[Balance]

Looks to me like several big holders jumping ahead of one another in their eagerness to feed the quacking ducks.

[see weed]

Already received an email from Mark Ryan saying he'll reply overnight. now that's fast!

Mark Ryan always answers my emails within 24 hrs.

[Balance]

Mark Ryan always answers my emails within 24 hrs.

And why not? Snakk needs its cheerleaders so the big holders can sell out.

[J R Ewing]

Too Jucy for Blocky
Don't you want to play fast and Lucy?

[ari]

How did I miss this....These guys are onto it! from Snakk facebook.

As part of our B-Crop certification we power local community projects. Sustainable Chippendale is one of projects and we are having a Free workshop on the 23rd of November on composting and worm farms.

[silu]

I want to write something negative about SNK to see whether balance posts something positive in return ;)

[blocker3]

I want to write something negative about SNK to see whether balance posts something positive in return ;)

Me too but I won't. I did ask him if he was drunk

[Balance]

Looks to me like several big holders jumping ahead of one another in their eagerness to feed the quacking ducks.

The ducks have been fed 2.11m shares so far.

But don't worry - there's 262m shares in total so plenty more where that is coming from.

[000831]

The ducks have been fed 2.11m shares so far.

But don't worry - there's 262m shares in total so plenty more where that is coming from.

If we look at VML's share no. outstanding.........wow, those companies just fool people steal money from investors pocket.
During last boom, similar companies like Heritage gold, widespread portfolio, now all gone.

[silu]

Most announcements have already been factored into the market. I didn't see anything in it that would sway me either way.

[klid]

At least the VWAP is .12 for today, and yesterday the same or just under.
Picked up 50,000 yesterday at 0.118, here's hoping I can hold for the required time.

[winner69]

How did I miss this....These guys are onto it! from Snakk facebook.

As part of our B-Crop certification we power local community projects. Sustainable Chippendale is one of projects and we are having a Free workshop on the 23rd of November on composting and worm farms.


Though you were taking the mickey out of me but this is true

I love companies doing sustainability stuff in the community

[000831]

There is only one way to turn around company image, bring positive profit to shareholders. Not play around by announcements and chasing meaningless "growth". The growth rate of direct cost is higher than its revenue, from the 2013 annual report. SNK makes a loss to attract clients to use its service????? That is the way to do the business? Meanwhile, it sucks money from IPOs, including planned ASX one, then continue to make loss to expand and "growth".

[blackcap]

We routinely disqualify testimony that would plead for extenuation. That is, we are so persuaded of the rightness of our judgement as to invalidate evidence that does not confirm us in it. Nothing that deserves to be called truth could ever be arrived at by such means.
Marilynne Robinson, The Death of Adam

[klid]

Trying to find out some stuff about these guys so looking for their website.

I see an investor website but nothing for me in my pretend publisher hat.

e.g. snakkmedia.com, seems to be their only website address, snk.co.nz redirects there. So you go there and notice the url turns into investors.snakkmedia.com
Investor based website, can't get to a non-investor based website. There's a tab at the top saying "Not an investor" - when clicked it actually tells you how you can buy their shares (find a broker) and there is an input box to send your email to subscribe to "updates" from Snakk Media - presumably investor related too.

A little disconcerted by this, especially as a new investor too haha, but maybe it's nothing to worry about.

Update:

Maybe something is in the works or they just removed it as there are pages indexed by google that no longer exist.
e.g. "snakk new york" as a google search, top 2 results are both 404 (page not found) errors:
snakkmedia.com/home/careers/‎ and snakkmedia.com/about-snakk/what-we-do/‎
And I remember seeing a different site once and in fact you can go back in time through www.archive.org using the "Wayback machine" and I can see that their website did indeed once have the following as a menu of content: "About, Advertise, Case Studies, Publishers, Blog, Investors".
The question is where is all this material now, except the blatantly obvious investors part I mean.

[silu]

Bill Gross (@Bill_Gross)
21/01/14 16:42
From #DLD14 earlier today: There are now 1.83 billion smartphones worldwide. On avg, people check them 150x per day, or EVERY 6.5 minutes!

[Longhaul]

Trying to find out some stuff about these guys so looking for their website.

I see an investor website but nothing for me in my pretend publisher hat.

e.g. snakkmedia.com, seems to be their only website address, snk.co.nz redirects there. So you go there and notice the url turns into investors.snakkmedia.com
Investor based website, can't get to a non-investor based website. There's a tab at the top saying "Not an investor" - when clicked it actually tells you how you can buy their shares (find a broker) and there is an input box to send your email to subscribe to "updates" from Snakk Media - presumably investor related too.

A little disconcerted by this, especially as a new investor too haha, but maybe it's nothing to worry about.


Weird, was checking their business site (for potential clients) last week, but you're right it's not showing anymore.

I wonder what they're up to?

[robbo24]

klid, I sure hope they are just upgrading the website...

It says:


Snakk’s vision is to be renowned around the globe as a leading enabler of purpose-driven advertising on mobile devices, changing brands and impacting lives through the new screens in our world. We enable brands to reach their consumers on smartphones and tablets, delivering engaging ads across a network of mobile websites, applications, and games in a way that is highly targeted, measurable and scalable. The company’s expertise and portfolio of technology aggregates a publisher’s supply of ad space and matches it with an advertiser’s demand.

It should include "...and through various channels, shareholder positions and customer charges will be adjusted according to the current whim of whoever may consider it appropriate - whether altruistic or discretionary ..."

[robbo24]

On avg, people check them 150x per day, or EVERY 6.5 minutes!

Everyone put on their best Handley-grin: http://investors.snakkmedia.com/key-people/

[Balance]

Everyone put on their best Handley-grin: http://investors.snakkmedia.com/key-people/

Will this one do?

He seemed to be happy feeding the ducks today?

[winner69]

His twitter account is a bit wierd

[couta1]

His twitter account is a bit wierd
There's a lot of slightly weird and unconventional about snakk perhaps that's what tempts us be in on this one wanting to be in on something that's different and not run of the mill with an added fun element perhaps it brings out the child in us

[blocker3]

Even the Moose are getting the Snakk grin on...

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/smile-big.jpg

LMFAO moosie not bad at all

[blocker3]

Question please who ever can answer it .SNK said that they are looking for a ASX duel listing in the future along side the NZX listing.No problems.

Summerset has just done this with SUM on the NZX and calling the equivalent SNZ on the ASX. At the moment SNZ /ASX has no sharers to sell and only 3 buys. How does this all work? Will they issue more shares? ASX be will be the way to go as the NZ$ is 0.94 and the top end of the range.

Cheers

[mrjeems]

I see an investor website but nothing for me in my pretend publisher hat.

Yea I was looking at their website last week - had all sorts of info for 'non-investors'. i.e. explained what they did, had examples of other clients work etc.
Its odd though - usually you'd get the new website ready before taking the old one down.

[Harvey Specter]

Question please who ever can answer it .SNK said that they are looking for a ASX duel listing in the future along side the NZX listing.No problems.

Summerset has just done this with SUM on the NZX and calling the equivalent SNZ on the ASX. At the moment SNZ /ASX has no sharers to sell and only 3 buys. How does this all work? Will they issue more shares? ASX be will be the way to go as the NZ$ is 0.94 and the top end of the range.I could be wrong but no new shares are required to be issued - Xero had to issue 1 share for paperwork purposes.

It requires existing shareholders to 'transfer' their shares to the ASX which can then be sold. I assume there is a bit of a process to this as you have to get it moved from the NZ registry to the ASX one.

[winner69]

SNK into the social responsibility space big time - people and planet and all that. Should help shareholder perceptions and increased valuations?

This from HBR today

Investors May React Emotionally to Corporate Responsibility

In an experiment, graduate business students who studied a fictional retailer’s finances valued the company at $25.92 per share if they were told it had an above-average record on such corporate-responsibility issues as labor and the environment, and just $19.14 per share if its performance on those measures was said to be below average, according to a team led by Mark E. Peecher of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. But the valuation gap disappeared when the participants were encouraged to think carefully about the company’s CSR, suggesting that the high valuations in the above-average case were “unintentional” and based on emotions. “One wants to avoid being overly swayed by” CSR, the researchers say.

[blah]

According to Mark Ryan, via NBR, Snakk is also considering shifting from the NZAX to the main index. No timeframes though.

[mrjeems]

That would be useful. Im using ASB and its annoying having to phone in orders for NZAX

[Longhaul]

That would be useful. Im using ASB and its annoying having to phone in orders for NZAX

Agree with you on that mrjeems. I wonder what affect that has on liquidity? (Apparently Direct Broking clients can trade SNK online though)

[couta1]

That would be useful. Im using ASB and its annoying having to phone in orders for NZAX
Switch to DB can trade everything online and cheaper

[Balance]

So an increase in volume hopefully?

I see the past 9 months a registry clean out of all the filth lying at the bottom of the pond. Once this is complete, I'm sure we will see a better future for this company.

As Balance has said before, let them giving you cheap shares now be seen as a blessing later :D

Eh? I think they are cleaning up their filth and you are buying it.

As for cheap, you are paying 12c for 0.5c shares.

A bit like going to a $2 shop dressed up as a $50 shop, and you happily pay.

[000831]

Got a few questions.

1. Who are SNK customers? at least we know who VML and WYN customers are.
2. How do they grow in Asian Market, or joint venture with which companies?
3. Do they have different country segmentation analysis for growth?


half of their management team members on the website have previous investment bank work experience which draws my attention.

[000831]

Got a few questions.

1. Who are SNK customers? at least we know who VML and WYN customers are.
2. How do they grow in Asian Market, or joint venture with which companies?
3. Do they have different country segmentation analysis for growth?


half of their management team members on the website have previous investment bank work experience which draws my attention.

[blocker3]

I could be wrong but no new shares are required to be issued - Xero had to issue 1 share for paperwork purposes.

It requires existing shareholders to 'transfer' their shares to the ASX which can then be sold. I assume there is a bit of a process to this as you have to get it moved from the NZ registry to the ASX one.

Thanks for that information Harvey

Cheers

[Balance]

1) Snakk has customers such as Pepsi, Ford etc so just as "global" as VML. (area/region specific of course as part of their targetted marketting).
2) We will find out their expansion plans in March for Asia. Currently building a home base in NZ and OZ.
3)No idea, hopefully Mark Ryan may answer that soon :)

Meanwhile, they are cleaning out their filth and you are buying - paying $48 for $2 stock.

[silu]

Meanwhile, they are cleaning out their filth and you are buying - paying $48 for $2 stock.

Balance it's getting old.

[whatsup]

So an increase in volume hopefully?

I see the past 9 months a registry clean out of all the filth lying at the bottom of the pond. Once this is complete, I'm sure we will see a better future for this company.

As Balance has said before, let them giving you cheap shares now be seen as a blessing later :D

As a question, Mousie did anyone FORCE you to buy SNK, I assume that you full investergated SNK before you did so and were very very happy with what you found ( warts and all ) before you bought into it ?

[Balance]

Balance it's getting old.

May be an oldie but a real goodie.

I have NEVER said Snakk's shares are cheap - ever.

It offends me that Moose is using Snakk's type PR to twist words - my simple assertion to Moose when he was moaning like crazy about Sorehead selling was if he really believed the shares were cheap, take the opportunity to buy them.

Imagine if Snakk issued the shares at $2.00 instead of 0.5c, would Moose be asserting the shares are cheap shares at $48? That is the cold hard reality.

It would not of course suit Derek etc to issue shares at $2.00 or $1.00.

Typical backdoor trick is to issue the shares at as low a vlaue as possible. The ducks love it.

[Balance]

Yeah OK , I wondered that. My worry with that is that there is every chance those companies involved in SNK's "case studies" may well not be customers still.

Is there any information provided by SNK re their current customers?

Company is busy spending money to get profile - NZAX to main (???), NZX to ASX (???), and micro loans etc.

Compare this behavior to that of PEB or ATM - do the hard yards while conserving cash, then move forward.

Would not be surprised at all that all the sales are 'bought' - makes sales grwoth look impressive but like Rakon, the more they sell, the more they lose.

[Balance]

if you look above Balance I did take your advice and buy cheaply. Credit where credit is due ;)

That kind of credit I do not need and want. :D

Keep paying $48 for $2 stock.

One day, the musical chair will stop.

[Harvey Specter]

if you look above Balance I did take your advice and buy cheaply. Credit where credit is due ;)Walked into that one Moosie. 7c is not cheap compared to 0.5c

[Blue Horseshoe]

Meanwhile, they are cleaning out their filth and you are buying - paying $48 for $2 stock.

Whole new ball game, was only worth $2.00 back then, now with the explosion in tablets, smart phones, etc, shares worth $100.00 now.

[whatsup]

I bought as a naive young man and sold as an informed investor afterwards between 12 and 16 cents (for a profit; thanks to Balance amazingly!). waited out Soreheads selling then bought back in on the rise late last year, and now here we are :)

and I ask are you still a naïve young man, education is always at a price/cost. Sorrinson paid his money, took the risk and and IMHO there is nothing wrong with that, Im betting that 99.999999% of posters here would have done exactly the same if they had had the same opportunity !!

[000831]

Company is busy spending money to get profile - NZAX to main (???), NZX to ASX (???), and micro loans etc.

Compare this behavior to that of PEB or ATM - do the hard yards while conserving cash, then move forward.

Would not be surprised at all that all the sales are 'bought' - makes sales grwoth look impressive but like Rakon, the more they sell, the more they lose.

We are thinking the same thing for its "growth". that guy was from wall street, playing investors around. So I question who their customers are. If its major sales from other media agent companies in OZ or Asian countries locally, we can approve SNK is "bought" for its sales.

Let's dig it out if there is something doggy

[J R Ewing]

I think it is worthwhile asking why SNK would want to dual list. What benefits do they get as a company? There doesn't seem to be any major capital raising requirements coming up - surely there is nothing of a scale that couldn't be funded from the NZ capital market. Being listed in Oz will give them a greater profile and allow some PR to be done via market releases over there - but I think the additional compliance costs associated with dual listing would outweigh that benefit. Surely they could buy some cheaper advertising, like mobile maybe :)

I just can't see how dual listing SNK could benefit the company going forward. So why would they want to dual list? I can see that it would make it easier and quicker for the founding shareholders to exit. Once they have done that, NZ investors, Australian investors and charitable trusts will have the benefit of the multi-million dollar company that Derek and others have so generously and altruistically set up and then sold off in order to move on to the next snake opportunity. Of course maybe not ALL of the snakes will be winners, but if you buy enough of them maybe you will have the next XRO.

[whatsup]

I think it is worthwhile asking why SNK would want to dual list. What benefits do they get as a company? There doesn't seem to be any major capital raising requirements coming up - surely there is nothing of a scale that couldn't be funded from the NZ capital market. Being listed in Oz will give them a greater profile and allow some PR to be done via market releases over there - but I think the additional compliance costs associated with dual listing would outweigh that benefit. Surely they could buy some cheaper advertising, like mobile maybe :)

I just can't see how dual listing SNK could benefit the company going forward. So why would they want to dual list? I can see that it would make it easier and quicker for the founding shareholders to exit. Once they have done that, NZ investors, Australian investors and charitable trusts will have the benefit of the multi-million dollar company that Derek and others have so generously and altruistically set up and then sold off in order to move on to the next snake opportunity. Of course maybe not ALL of the snakes will be winners, but if you buy enough of them maybe you will have the next XRO.

J R , easy don't they say a couple of days ago that 95% of their business is in Aussie, its a no brainer, "go where the market is" support staff and all !

[000831]

I think it is worthwhile asking why SNK would want to dual list. What benefits do they get as a company? There doesn't seem to be any major capital raising requirements coming up - surely there is nothing of a scale that couldn't be funded from the NZ capital market. Being listed in Oz will give them a greater profile and allow some PR to be done via market releases over there - but I think the additional compliance costs associated with dual listing would outweigh that benefit. Surely they could buy some cheaper advertising, like mobile maybe :)





I just can't see how dual listing SNK could benefit the company going forward. So why would they want to dual list? I can see that it would make it easier and quicker for the founding shareholders to exit. Once they have done that, NZ investors, Australian investors and charitable trusts will have the benefit of the multi-million dollar company that Derek and others have so generously and altruistically set up and then sold off in order to move on to the next snake opportunity. Of course maybe not ALL of the snakes will be winners, but if you buy enough of them maybe you will have the next XRO.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10885823



Kiwi technology entrepreneur Derek Handley has twice teetered on a tightrope above financial ruin.
The first time he was 22 and facing bankruptcy, $100,000 in debt after an ill-fated gamble on the share market.
The second he was 30, worried he would be left a "pauper and a failure" as the global financial crisis threatened to lay waste to The Hyperfactory, the mobile marketing business he had built up for almost a decade.
He cried during both.



2001/2002 dot com bubble
2009 financial crisis
2015/2016 tech bubble? third run? So suck as much money as they can before they exit the "business"

[winner69]

EBO have had 3 small trades and SUM have had just as many since the end of Nov

ASX listing certainly created interest in hat country

Ego trip?

[winner69]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10885823



Kiwi technology entrepreneur Derek Handley has twice teetered on a tightrope above financial ruin.
The first time he was 22 and facing bankruptcy, $100,000 in debt after an ill-fated gamble on the share market.
The second he was 30, worried he would be left a "pauper and a failure" as the global financial crisis threatened to lay waste to The Hyperfactory, the mobile marketing business he had built up for almost a decade.
He cried during both.



2001/2002 dot com bubble
2009 financial crisis
2015/2016 tech bubble? third run? So suck as much money as they can before they exit the "business"


I remember Feverpitch

Aptly named through the capital raising process

[J R Ewing]

J R , easy don't they say a couple of days ago that 95% of their business is in Aussie, its a no brainer, "go where the market is" support staff and all !

On that basis McDonalds should be listed on every stock exchange in the world! What is the benefit to SNK as a company of being listed in the country where 95% of the sales are made, as opposed to some other exchange?

[Balance]

On that basis McDonalds should be listed on every stock exchange in the world! What is the benefit to SNK as a company of being listed in the country where 95% of the sales are made, as opposed to some other exchange?

Stocks in an exchange in a particular country will tend to get better coverage in the media there - so it actually makes sense.

Which begs the question - why list in NZ iun the first place then unless ..?

[whatsup]

On that basis McDonalds should be listed on every stock exchange in the world! What is the benefit to SNK as a company of being listed in the country where 95% of the sales are made, as opposed to some other exchange?

J R, Do Mc Don have 95% of their business in each country that they trade in , no just where they are listed.

[mrjeems]

Which begs the question - why list in NZ iun the first place then unless ..?

From what I remember it was because the amount of money they needed wasnt that much, and listing on NZX is much easier than ASX. So they took the easier route.

[J R Ewing]

Compliance costs can't be anywhere near what I think they are then, if a $30M capitalization company gets enough PR exposure from listing on two exchanges to make that worthwhile.

[000831]

Read the interim report again,

Balance Sheet

NK keeps cash and equivalents as much as $6,923,709. Receivables $2,088,505. It has as little as $15,720 in fixed assets. Why it raised loan from bank, increasing by 138.5% to $2,260,343. Does anybody know why it borrows money and use the money for what purpose? Parentally, it does not purchase fixed assets or huge research on software or technology.

Who can explain the accumulated loss in Equity, $4,115,756 in 2013?

[winner69]

Twitter is at 70 times sales and losses heaps

As some say grossly undervalued at 70 times sales

[J R Ewing]

Twitter is at 70 times sales and losses heaps

As some say grossly undervalued at 70 times sales

And MAYBE Twitter will figure out how to make heaps in the future and justify that valuation. But if it continues losing heaps in the long term, eventually the bubble will burst and it will be worth zilch.

[silu]

The like of Twitter and Facebook don't care buying out companies for several hundred million dollars if it benefits them. Especially for one that makes them money in the long run. That is my best case scenario for SNK.

[000831]

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/01/03/twitter-near-70-valued-at-38-billion-or-49-billion/

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/1/22/technology/twitters-value-definitely-crazy

Ok, if all like this style, I change my tongue for SNK. buy buy buy !!!

We can see smart money flowing into SNK since last Nov, when the right time kicks in, SNK would be another WYN for buying!!!

[silu]

I don't say buy SNK but have it as a speculative holding in a well diversified portfolio. In my NZX portfolio is represents about 4.5% of my holdings.

[000831]

I don't say buy SNK but have it as a speculative holding in a well diversified portfolio. In my NZX portfolio is represents about 4.5% of my holdings.

The stock opened on the New York Stock Exchange in November last year at $US26, peaked at $US74.73 on Boxing Day and closed this morning $US62.32. In the first half, revenue increased 107 per cent to $US253.6 million while the loss increased 41 per cent to $US69.3 million.


If all those US big firms are doing similar thing as SNK, then I have nothing to say, just following the trend. Going to buy now. at least it below the initial price still have chance to triple in price.

[000831]

actually buying.................but not big amount

[Banksie]

Been looking at this company again after a long hiatus. Unfortunately it still doesn't seem to have much substance to me, even less now their client facing website is gone.

As far as support staff go - the Australian addresses listed on their website look like virtual offices to me but I can't tell about the Auckland one. Does anyone live near Silicon Villa, 65 Ponsonby Road? Is it a Snakk office?

So I looked up their employee figures from the annual report:
Directors 3
Officers 2
Employees 7

Anyone know where these 7 workers are?

[winner69]

Read the interim report again,

Balance Sheet

NK keeps cash and equivalents as much as $6,923,709. Receivables $2,088,505. It has as little as $15,720 in fixed assets. Why it raised loan from bank, increasing by 138.5% to $2,260,343. Does anybody know why it borrows money and use the money for what purpose? Parentally, it does not purchase fixed assets or huge research on software or technology.

Who can explain the accumulated loss in Equity, $4,115,756 in 2013?

I see no bank loans

The number you quote is what they owe creditors ...people they buy stuff off

The Accumulated Loss is just that ....how much they lost since starting. The bigger this number is the better many say ....means they doing heaps of stuff and selling heaps

[mrjeems]

As far as support staff go - the Australian addresses listed on their website look like virtual offices to me but I can't tell about the Auckland one. Does anyone live near Silicon Villa, 65 Ponsonby Road? Is it a Snakk office?

On google street view it has big "for lease" signs on it. So if we assume that street view is 1-2 years ago - it could well be the new Snakk office.


https://maps.google.co.nz/maps?q=65+Ponsonby+Road&hl=en&ll=-36.857063,174.747854&spn=0.007091,0.013937&sll=-36.857039,174.747841&layer=c&cbp=13,35.6,,0,6.1&cbll=-36.857063,174.747854&hnear=65+Ponsonby+Rd,+Grey+Lynn,+Auckland+1011&t=h&z=17&panoid=-Ijv6LYicuDBkYQ-kRlIJA

[mrjeems]

Heh. Derek is FB friends with my girlfriends boss.

[000831]

Young minds, so easily swayed :)

I figure out the safest way for me to buy SNK is sold off some WYN and buy some SNK.

[Balance]

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/01/03/twitter-near-70-valued-at-38-billion-or-49-billion/

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/1/22/technology/twitters-value-definitely-crazy

Ok, if all like this style, I change my tongue for SNK. buy buy buy !!!

We can see smart money flowing into SNK since last Nov, when the right time kicks in, SNK would be another WYN for buying!!!

Name one smart money.

[000831]

Name one smart money.


ducks, ok. Balance, I will wait another week, very hesitate. Anyway WYN is still going up, worth to hold more days.

[J R Ewing]

Name one smart money.
The third duck from the right in the left hand picture looks like a smart operator to me, I can't see him finishing up like the ones in the middle picture. :)

[Balance]

ducks, ok. Balance, I will wait another week, very hesitate. Anyway WYN is still going up, worth to hold more days.

Seriously, love to know the smart money going in.

You are assuming HPF, Sorehead, Derek etc are dumb money heading out?

[silu]

Can we agree on a moratorium of the whole “I’m right, you’re wrong” merry-go-round from both sides? This is really getting tiresome.

[Balance]

I refer you to the 2nd of 000831's quotes I posted above and you might start to rethink if there is much point pursuing this line of conversation.....

Got you, turmeric.

Cheers.

PS. My postings are really for the benefit of any newie reading.

[Copper]

ducks, ok. Balance, I will wait another week, very hesitate. Anyway WYN is still going up, worth to hold more days.

Despite all the hullabaloo and garbage that's on this site of late the market full of punters and yobbo's will eventually see that it hasn't moved and IMHO will pour some money it's way and we could see an upward jump for all the reasons Moosie ,Balance et al have not mentioned.Everything else in this space is on a roll.

[J R Ewing]

This thread will be a great read when the SP hits $1.00 or when it hits 2c - either way :)

[Balance]

Can we agree on a moratorium of the whole “I’m right, you’re wrong” merry-go-round from both sides? This is really getting tiresome.

Eh, someone mentioned smart money so the question was asked of who and where are the smart money.

Genuine question as could be a Soros buying? Like he did with GPG?

[silu]

This thread will be a great read when the SP hits $1.00 or when it hits 2c - either way :)

The truth is somewhere in between ;)

[Banksie]

Check out Snakk Media page on Facebook, appears to be many more than 7 these days...

Thanks moosie

[Harvey Specter]

Moosie. be quick:

edit: dont know how to quote a tweet:













https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/rq3CoJ2dkzjDPiMMFmiHtJfmUsbAjYu0fzl0RueCvLXzY-CkI1W4FxX9veyi5AFFQki7myGnwD_yw5HiLrTT4O41qYKEM4sA 8uFwcFFdv-762Q26-f1SmnSRLnT2LQ=s0-d-e1-ft#https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/271538997/junk_reasonably_small.jpg (https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdgh%2Fsta tus%2F425822107079950336&sig=db234686d4eb44b0f0d4a9aef8af0da03554606c&uid=15055281&iid=42f4937961b441f5915e186f8124dd7a&nid=151+1262&t=1)





Derek Handley (https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdgh%2Fsta tus%2F425822107079950336&sig=db234686d4eb44b0f0d4a9aef8af0da03554606c&uid=15055281&iid=42f4937961b441f5915e186f8124dd7a&nid=151+1264&t=1)@dgh (https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdgh%2Fsta tus%2F425822107079950336&sig=db234686d4eb44b0f0d4a9aef8af0da03554606c&uid=15055281&iid=42f4937961b441f5915e186f8124dd7a&nid=151+1264&t=1)





Thinking I need parttime summer sidekick in Auckland for odd jobs. Must be sharp as razorblades and willing to do whatever. Any candidates?










02:47 AM - 22 Jan 14 (https://twitter.com/dgh/status/425822107079950336)

[Banksie]

Xxxxxx xxxxxx

Do you sigh all your letters with this many kisses ;)

[klid]

Thanks for posting that! Good that there are reasons behind the site! Didn't know about some of those brand names they've done campaigns for!

[Schrodinger]

Since SNK doesnt own their platform they wont scale as well as the others they mention. Service based businesses are usually profitable but they never scale easily.

Unless I misread the info they are a mobile add agency service which pays for outsourced technology to deliver their product.

Another thing I find interesting is that they dont revenue share the campaigns hence they need to keep pulling in advertising deals and clipping the ticket.

[Balance]

The long and short of the reply is that Snakk is but another IT firm used by the ad agencies to customize and place ads in mobile apps.

Just like any number of audio visual companies used by ad agencies to film ads for TVs etc.

So substitute TV for mobile, and it's same same.

Big yawn.

[Copper]

Thanks Moosie for all your effort.If that was put in a Broker Newsletter the price would double without the clients understanding most of it.
Well done.
regards
Copper

[000831]

The long and short of the reply is that Snakk is but another IT firm used by the ad agencies to customize and place ads in mobile apps.

Just like any number of audio visual companies used to film ads for TVs etc.

Big yawn.


That's not difficult to achieve, so someone designs those ads before. I guess SNK use google , Anriod, apple or other platforms to deliver the ads, right?

[000831]

The long and short of the reply is that Snakk is but another IT firm used by the ad agencies to customize and place ads in mobile apps.

Just like any number of audio visual companies used to film ads for TVs etc.

Big yawn.


That's not difficult to achieve, so someone designs those ads before. I guess SNK use google , Anriod, apple or other platforms to deliver the ads, right?

[blocker3]

Moosie .WELL Done. 10/10 for taking the time to ask the questions and get the reply.


Well done once again .Moosie
Cheers

[Balance]

If you say to someone that they should pay $30m odd for an audio visual ad making and placement company when TVs were introduced, and advertising revenues exploded, men in white coats with vans would be knocking on the door.

Substitute mobiles for TVs, add hype and suddenly, it's fireworks and dancing girls?

No wonder Sorehead, HPF and Derek cannot get out fast enough of their 0.5c shares!

[Copper]

All in context and just for you, blocked head.

Balance you are becoming old and grumpy and boring again unfortunately.....

[Copper]

Something on the way that will get the drums rolling again I'm told.......

[Copper]

How reliable is that source? The KDK SNK rumor seems to have been put to bed, so just wondering how reliable these sorts of things are??

Was a placement at ten. Not sure whether new shares perhaps for Aussie list or large shareholder like Snapdragon unloading. Didn't ask like a fool.....regards

[Swiftideas]

If you say to someone that they should pay $30m odd for an ... ad making and placement company when TVs were introduced, and advertising revenues exploded, men in white coats with vans would be knocking on the door.

Yet those exact companies who place TV ads are now multi-billion dollar stocks: WPP = $28B, OMC = $19B, PUB = $18B, IPG = $7.3B

Wish someone would knock on your door.

[Copper]

In simpler terms please?

Oops sorry no Canadian dialect.....I was told there was a placement of Snakk at ten cents.My guess was it could be placement to Aussie big bright and beautiful knowledgeable and professional investors or could be Dragon or the other mob unloading a good parcel.I didn't ask the simple question of which.Hope that helps. Good source in my opinion...cheers..Don't want to mislead anybody...

[Balance]

No they haven't depressed the SP as the others have and made a blatant point about it in a release last year. Point is that two major early shareholders are now out/nearly out with one more to go (contrary to what Balance says, Handley is not going to sell all his shares!). This, along with Handleys placements, will most likely be the cornerstone shares for an ASX listing. By taking an initial stake, interested parties should be upping their shareholdings over the next few months, adding liquidity.

First you were fed the line he was donating (more) shares to charity but when the disclosure came out, it showed he took the opportunity to unload shares, and will unload more in future.

It is the thin end of the wedge.

You need to get the full picture, Moose because you are being fed half the story all the time.

[Balance]

Yet those exact companies who place TV ads are now multi-billion dollar stocks: WPP = $28B, OMC = $19B, PUB = $18B, IPG = $7.3B

Wish someone would knock on your door.

They are the ad agencies, slowideas.

The ones who give the likes of Snakk the small bit jobs.

Savvy?

[jonu]

Since SNK doesnt own their platform they wont scale as well as the others they mention. Service based businesses are usually profitable but they never scale easily.

Unless I misread the info they are a mobile add agency service which pays for outsourced technology to deliver their product.

Another thing I find interesting is that they dont revenue share the campaigns hence they need to keep pulling in advertising deals and clipping the ticket.

Excellent points Schrodinger. They have no guaranteed return business by the sound of it. Worrying to me (and I've expressed this before) is the fact that increased revenue brought with it increased losses. On the business model described here I wouldn't have thought that to be the case, unless they are having to spend a fortune continually trying to clinch their next job.

My experience of the AD industry is that they are very much into "contras" which you can show through the books as revenue but aren't going to add to the bottom line. I wonder if that is what is occurring here?

[jonu]

They've been pretty upfront about "doing a Xero" (ie increased losses for a landgrab). I am comfortable with that as long as growth continues on its current upwards trajectory and the macro environment stays positive to allow for more funding.

Trouble is Moosie, it's not a land grab. The extra spending doesn't secure a fixed asset, just the next job! If it secured a long term contract I would agee, but it clearly doesn't

[Balance]

Surely successful campaigns mean repeat customers though? Who says Snakk can't diversify into other scaleable areas such as m-payments like MBE as well?

After reading Mr Handleys book he mentioned the key to being the best in a new sector is being ahead of the curve in order to make the rules by being the first in place. Hopefully we see some new innovations for all that R&D spend in order to be the best (and maybe only) company to go to in the sector...

Xero and landgrab now changing form - so full of Moose ****.

[jonu]

Surely successful campaigns mean repeat customers though? Who says Snakk can't diversify into other scaleable areas such as m-payments like MBE as well?

After reading Mr Handleys book he mentioned the key to being the best in a new sector is being ahead of the curve in order to make the rules by being the first in place. Hopefully we see some new innovations for all that R&D spend in order to be the best (and maybe only) company to go to in the sector...

You don't necessarily get to make the "rules" by being in something first, but those following get to see the pitfalls to avoid, so I find that a flawed concept. Are you sure you are quoting him right Moosie?

[couta1]

We shall see in a few months how things will pan out and surely those of us with skin in the game have more to worry about than those that don't but the reverse seems to be the case judging by the intensity of the comments on here

[Schrodinger]

Trouble is Moosie, it's not a land grab. The extra spending doesn't secure a fixed asset, just the next job! If it secured a long term contract I would agee, but it clearly doesn't

Ding ding.

This isn't a scaleable platform. They need add teams for each campaign more adds means more team, unless they can automate the campaigns (Wildfire). It's not like a Xero, Microsoft or SalesForce which can produce unlimited versions for virtually no cost.

Moosie for peace of mind I suggest you study TradeMe, Google, Microsoft, Xero etc and understand what we mean. I am a big fan of the TradeMe model it's almost perfect considering it's only in one market.

In saying that they can still be profitable but they aren't going to dominate.

[Schrodinger]

True I haven't looked into them yet although they have a good rep from you guys.

Did I hear correctly they have gone up 1000 percent this year?

[Copper]

I see the thread is taking on its usual warlike tendency.The world is not taking any notice of Balance and the investor won't know B...all about how ad agencies work so if Sea Dragon is hopefully out and the other lot maybe soon ,then this thread will be redundant as the shares will be listed in aussy and on their way to twenty propelled by a rampant group of Hot Copper swilling boomerang throwers and a few kiwi's that have just seen a new photo of Derek donning a space suit.......

[Balance]

I see the thread is taking on its usual warlike tendency.The world is not taking any notice of Balance and the investor won't know B...all about how ad agencies work so if Sea Dragon is hopefully out and the other lot maybe soon ,then this thread will be redundant as the shares will be listed in aussy and on their way to twenty propelled by a rampant group of Hot Copper swilling boomerang throwers and a few kiwi's that have just seen a new photo of Derek donning a space suit.......

LOL. You wish.

We now have Moose quoting from the book of Chairman Handley, articulating Snakk's landgrab loss making sales strategy when their customers are referral customers from ad agencies!

The strategy should be customergrab? And then, get cut off from the ad agencies?

There is so much BS now written here that it's not acceptable anymore.

So, Copper, BRING IT ON!

[Harvey Specter]

Has anyone asked SNK about this? Why? SNK does not control its shareholders (shareholders control SNK), nor will it (necessarily) be privy to any information about its shareholders intentions.

There was a PR that stated DH will be transfering more shares to his charty and selling on market so expect him to sell more on-market.

[jonu]

Isn't the minimum sp to list in Oz 20c? How do they intend to breach that gap? Consolidation?

[blah]

This comment and Moosie's related one the other day had me wondering I've missed something. Last SSH HPF had a further 15,915,131 shares left. Has there been some confirmation that they have either sold these or have disclosed their intent not to sell anymore?

Also it took Sorenson 6 months to sell 10m shares, so are we assuming he has sold his remaining 12.5m in the last 4 months? That may be the case but are you guys certain?

And finally where is the confirmation Derek is not going to sell down more on market. Anything related to his own on-market sales was conspicuously absent from that latest SNK PR was it not? Has anyone asked SNK about this? If I were holding shares or looking to buy I would certainly be putting that question to SNK and presuming the response was a positive one for shareholders posting it all over here to provide a bit of confidence in the SP. SNK did openly criticise some of it's other founding shareholders for selling down right? So presumably, for the sake of some kind of consistency, they should be happy to make it clear to shareholders what Derek's' intentions are one would have thought. If anyone cares to ask the question please post the answer.

nobody knows for certain who is selling and at what volumes if no SSH is released. Much of the Sorehead etc issue would have been blown out of proportions based on a low share price for mention of Mr Sorehead on a daily basis on this thread has far exceeded the SSH notices released by him. It's easy to blame him for the daily volumes in the hundreds of thousants sold during the sub 10c days, yet he couldn't have been selling all this everyday for months and months on end - as some has sort of given the impression of - because he only has a finite tranch of shares would have cleared him out in a couple of weeks when volumes were high.

I guess the biggest impediment here is not so much Bakery Boys selling his shares that he got for 0.5c or whatever Balance says. A plausible reason would be that Snakk has grown beyond of the profile that these guys are used to investing in: startups. They may well prefer to put money into the next startup than to watch Snakk grow.

I see the biggest question mark now is why Derek Handley is selling. Is it because he has no confidence in the company going forward? Who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if it were related to his charity though - perhaps selling out of some Snakk to actually give the charity some cash? I have no idea what a charity would do with shares in a company that doesn't pay dividends other than to sell it.

my 2c.

Disc. hold; bought at SPP and have held on. Read this thread regularly. Not Sorehead or anyone of importance.

[Copper]

Isn't the minimum sp to list in Oz 20c? How do they intend to breach that gap? Consolidation?

I think if you comply with listing requirements here the Aussies may take it as a given all things being equal.Not sure though.Good point.

Turmeric....Your early points about how many shares to go from various quarters.My personal opinion and that only is that if they get listed in aussy and the like of Hot Copper etc get some sort of whiff of something then the turnover should increase substantially and absorb all the dregs.After that it's unknown territory only supported by results.Nothing really to do with all the analysis on this blog.regards....

[Minerbarejet]

Whats going on here - 3461000 shares traded before we even open.

[000831]

Whats going on here - 3461000 shares traded before we even open.

That implies NZ price must be up to related level to match up by Mar, look at this morning trading volume. 3.46M traded at the 9am.
:sneaky2:

[Balance]

That implies NZ price must be up to related level to match up by Mar, look at this morning trading volume. 3.46M traded at the 9am.
:sneaky2:

These must be the 8.5m SeaDragon's Snakk shares which were being shopped around.

Looks like they may have only been able to place 3.46m?

There's around 500,000 shares on the bid at 11c to 11.8c - quick $5k profit for those who got the shares at 10c?

[Minerbarejet]

That implies NZ price must be up to related level to match up by Mar, look at this morning trading volume. 3.46M traded at the 9am.
:sneaky2:
Ok I'll bite.
Related level? Related to what?
What has March got to do with it?
And finally match up to what?
:sneaky2: to you too
:)
Minerbarejet

[bull....]

still reckon about 20mil shares to go

[Harvey Specter]

Whats going on here - 3461000 shares traded before we even open.


These must be the 15m SeaDragon's Snakk shares which were being shopped around.Unlikely to be SEA as they are doing a SPP at the moment, no need for the cash.

More likely to be DH transfering more to his foundation. That amount should require a disclosure??

[Balance]

still reckon about 20mil shares to go

HPF has 15.9m shares last SSH to sell.

Derek has over 40m last SSH.

And so on and so forth - they are getting out as fast as they can.

[Balance]

Feed the ducks when they are quacking.

“When the ducks quack, feed them” is a Wall Street proverb cited in print from at least 1991. The adage became especially popular with internet IPOs in the 1990s.

http://www.fusioninvesting.com/2010/05/investment-cliches/

[Minerbarejet]

Are Peking ducks included in that?:)

[klid]

Were all these shares traded at 10c?!?!

[000831]

Balance, your duck theory and pics make me laugh.

SNK shareholders are not ducks if those info is correct collected from some posts.

Assumption:

1. From company announcement, ASX dual listing by March
2. Listing Regulation SNK.ASX must be 20c
3. SNK.NZ shareholders may transfer shares into SNK.ASX

However, someone said it would be 10c at ASX


If those three assumptions are not dreams, then SNK.NZ shareholders are not ducks, they are duck feeders. Let them feed the OZ ducks,hahahahaha ~~~~~.

:p

[Balance]

These must be the 8.5m SeaDragon's Snakk shares which were being shopped around.

Looks like they may have only been able to place 3.46m?

There's around 500,000 shares on the bid at 11c to 11.8c - quick $5k profit for those who got the shares at 10c?

Entirely predictable - shares sold down to 11c.

Good on Sea Dragon or whosoever for getting 10c, and good on whosoever got the shares at 10c and took a quick profit.

[Harvey Specter]

I think so. How does it work again? If its Derek or HPF it will require a discloser as it's a change of >1% of a substantial holding. If it's Seadragon or Sorenson it won't though right?Any shareholder holding over 5% has to advise a movement over 1% (or a movement that puts them under 5%). DH has to advise any movement since he is a director.

[Swiftideas]

They are the ad agencies. The ones who give the likes of Snakk the small bit jobs.
Savvy?

The lifeblood of agencies is marketing services. Especially making TV ads. They own creative shops to produce ads & media shops to place ads. Much like Snakk.
Those agencies give out $$ because they haven't built internal capability in mobile yet. But their industry is forecasting a downturn in every area but mobile. So where will the growth come from? Sound like potential acquirers to me.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/dec/09/mobile-advertising-new-revenue-2016-smartphone-tablets

Either way your original point is to ridicule a $30M valuation for a mobile media company. You made it on the premise that a similar valuation would never apply to a company that makes TV ads. But you're wrong. And dumb stubborn not to admit it. Thousands of companies did ok making TV ads. Hundreds doing good in mobile too.

So what's your real game here? Trolling the stock for a grudge or depressing the buy price for a bargain? Either way it stinks.

[Jasemc]

It probably is sea dragon cashing up to add to there other fund raising. ;)

[ced]

3,461,009/262,862,984 = 1.32%

This would mean if the seller is holding over 5% a disclosure notice is required, otherwise we can assume the sellers total holdings is under the 5% mark.

[blah]

Unlikely to be SEA as they are doing a SPP at the moment, no need for the cash.

More likely to be DH transfering more to his foundation. That amount should require a disclosure??

unsure about your Seadragon argument. It makes sense at one level, but at the same time I'm sure Seadragon would rather have (more) cash in bank than have shares whose price fluctuates quite a bit.

[blah]

3,461,009/262,862,984 = 1.32%

This would mean if the seller is holding over 5% a discloser is required, otherwise we can assume the sellers total holdings is under the 5% mark.

lets speculate further... Mr Sorensen? (if he's not all out already)

[bull....]

Were all these shares traded at 10c?!?!

all shares traded at 10c

[biker]

Unlikely to be SEA as they are doing a SPP at the moment, no need for the cash.
...........


No need for the cash?? Who's to say they will get the 2.5 mil from the SPP? They have stated they want out of SNK and wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to sell the lot overnight but couldn't find enough takers at 10c. (hope it was SEA as SPP closes tomorrow and selling now helps take the pressure off )

[Balance]

Balance, your duck theory and pics make me laugh.

SNK shareholders are not ducks if those info is correct collected from some posts.

Assumption:

1. From company announcement, ASX dual listing by March
2. Listing Regulation SNK.ASX must be 20c
3. SNK.NZ shareholders may transfer shares into SNK.ASX

However, someone said it would be 10c at ASX


If those three assumptions are not dreams, then SNK.NZ shareholders are not ducks, they are duck feeders. Let them feed the OZ ducks,hahahahaha ~~~~~.

:p

Huge assumption Ozzies are greater fools?

Could be share consolidation of 4 to 1 to get 20c by the time HPF and others sell down?

Notice SeaDragon could not place all their shares last night?

[ced]

If it was SEA wouldn't we have got a disclosure notice?

At SEA's last disclosure notice (23/08/13) they had 5.706%.

If this was their sale it would constitute a movement that puts them under 5%.

[Balance]

If it was SEA wouldn't we have got a disclosure notice?

At SEA's last disclosure notice (23/08/13) they had 5.706%.

If this was their sale it would constitute a movement that puts them under 5%.

Nope - they were under 5% threshold after last sell down.

[ced]

You guys are right. 01/11/13 SeaDragon went under the 5%.

How embarrassing!

[Balance]

Well, the ducks are being fed - plenty more Snakks to come.

Just queue up.

[000831]

Well, the ducks are being fed - plenty more Snakks to come.

Just queue up.

haha, pics again, love those pics

[Dentie]

HPF has 15.9m shares last SSH to sell.

Derek has over 40m last SSH.

And so on and so forth - they are getting out as fast as they can.

From their last announcement, I read this ...

Derek remains a significant investor and is committed to the success of the
company, providing significant strategic governance as well as hands-on input
in his role as Chair, an investor and Co-Founder.

Surely with over 40m shares, Mr H has plenty to "share" around (& is entitled to).

Balance, would you prefer Mr H to hold on tightly to his shares in the manner Rod & Co are doing with the amount of Xero shares they hold compared to what is on issue? Certainly creates bigger competition amongst the ducks trying get some of those shares ... helping to drive up the SP in the process.

[000831]

Shares
Precentage
date




China Scot limited
11,293,540
4.43%
27-May-13
Derek Handley



SeaDragon Limited
8,500,000
3.23%
1-Nov-13




Far East Associated Traders Limited
41,132,634
15.65%
13-Jan-14
Derek Handley



Snakk Trustee Limited
12,579,790
4.78%
25-Sep-13




HPF Investments Limited
15,915,131
6.06%
29-Nov-13
Geoffrey John ROSS
NZ






Geoffrey John Handley
UK



total
34.15%














check the announcements, and do the math and find the sellers still remaining.

One more interesting stuff, is GEOFFERY JOHN HANDLEY (DEREK BROTHER) AND GEOFFERY JOHN ROSS the same person?

[Harvey Specter]

One more interesting stuff, is GEOFFERY JOHN HANDLEY (DEREK BROTHER) AND GEOFFERY JOHN ROSS the same person?one has slick back long hair, the other has no hair:
5377
5378

[Balance]

From their last announcement, I read this ...

Derek remains a significant investor and is committed to the success of the
company, providing significant strategic governance as well as hands-on input
in his role as Chair, an investor and Co-Founder.

Surely with over 40m shares, Mr H has plenty to "share" around (& is entitled to).

Balance, would you prefer Mr H to hold on tightly to his shares in the manner Rod & Co are doing with the amount of Xero shares they hold compared to what is on issue? Certainly creates bigger competition amongst the ducks trying get some of those shares ... helping to drive up the SP in the process.

Someone answered the question re Rod's selling down of some of his Xero's shares recently very well.

He built up the credibility and market positioning of the company first and then, sold some of his shares in conjunction with raising new capital from strategic new shareholders/investors.

And he sold into an ever rising share price.

Why is Derek and the other shareholders not doing that?

[Dentie]

Someone answered the question re Rod's selling down of some of his Xero's shares recently very well.

He built up the credibility and market positioning of the company first and then, sold some of his shares in conjunction with raising new capital from strategic new shareholders/investors.

And he sold into an ever rising share price.

Why is Derek and the other shareholders not doing that?

It appears you have missed my point - or maybe I'm missing yours?

I was simply trying to point out that Mr Handley had tried to make it plain that he retained a significant holding in Snakk but, more importantly, he was still going to be very closely involved in the governance etc etc of Snakk. Just because he sold some of his holding doesn't mean he is jumping off a sinking ship (or however you want to phrase it). He obviously wants to use his funds in other areas - which clearly isn't a crime either. In fact, I admire him for using his own dosh to fund other things he might be involved in - which is contrary to what a lot of others may do (a certain Mr Ross comes immediately to mind). If Mr Handley had sold all his shares and simply walked away - then I would probably join your chorus.

I don't remember seeing your same tirade against the Masfen's when they sold down 25%+ of their holding in PEB. As I have read plenty of times, people sell their shares for lots of differing reasons... but it doesn't mean to say there is something sinister going on.

Sorry Balance, I have monotonously noted your views about the back door listing etc but I am still not getting the relevance of your other comments as they compare with the published material about Mr Handley and Snakk etc. But, I can be forgiven because I don't hold guru status.

[winner69]

Any shareholder holding over 5% has to advise a movement over 1% (or a movement that puts them under 5%). DH has to advise any movement since he is a director.

DH only has to disclose 1% movements .... he is exempted from the director and officers requirements because he is a substantial shareholder

[000831]

For those worrieddabout Mr Handley selling down:

"You may have noticed that our Chair and Co-Founder Derek Handley completed
the first tranche of a gift of 2 million shares toward the development of his
personal charitable foundation in an off-market transaction as per his
previous guidance at the Snakk AGM in August 2013. Derek has indicated he
will transfer approximately 10% of his Snakk holdings to his foundation, a
range of other charities and private placements to investors during 2014 with
more news to come on what the activities and social impact goals will be."

So, 10% would be 4.65M shares as per last SSH:

Summary for: Far East Associated Traders Limited
For this disclosure,--
(a) total number held in class: 41,132,634
(b) total in class: 262,862,984
(c) total percentage held in class: 15.65%

For last disclosure,--
(a) total number held in class: 46,598,821
(b) total in class: 254,829,029
(c) total percentage held in class: 18.29%

According to this SSH, 5.46M were actually offloaded, but below this the SSH says:

"Details of transactions and events giving rise to relevant event
2,000,000 shares were transferred to the Handley Foundation and a further
1,466,187 shares were sold on market during December 2013. The effect was to
see a reduction in the substantial holding in the ordinary shares held."

This then leaves 3M shares unaccounted for according to this report (which may take into account todays transaction).

Also note that Derek has sold nothing from his own private holding, nor has his family trust (China Scot).


He sold some China scot holdings,

Date this disclosure made: 27 May 2013
Date last disclosure made: 6 March 2013
Substantial security holder(s) giving disclosure
Name(s): China Scot Limited
Contact details: Mr Geoffrey John Handley
Tel: 0019172040873
Email:geoffreyhandley@hotmail.com
Summary of substantial holding to which disclosure relates
Class of listed voting securities: Ordinary shares in SNK
Summary for: China Scot Limited
For this disclosure,—
(a) total number held in class: 11,293,540
(b) total in class: 254,829,029
(c) total percentage held in class: 4.43% For last disclosure,—
(a) total number held in class: 11,293,540
(b) total in class: 206,630,124
(c) total percentage held in class: 5.47%

guess the cash out is use for cost of back door listing, personal spending or even a property purchase.

[000831]

Numerals, if you abide by your name you would notice no shares were sold, only a reduction in % age hollding due to the SPP taking place.

Hmmmm...

yeh, you are right, sorry for that. In this way, if this company holding reduced, it is not required to disclose.

[Harvey Specter]

... and a further
1,466,187 shares were sold on market during December 2013.

Also note that Derek has sold nothing from his own private holding, nor has his family trust (China Scot).Not sure how thoses two sentences reconcile.


DH only has to disclose 1% movements .... he is exempted from the director and officers requirements because he is a substantial shareholderthats dumb. Surely the strictest requirement should apply, not the least. I'll take your word for it though.

[robbo24]

Harvey, check out SSH for Derek Handley back on listing day last year. He has 11M+ shares that are directly his own.

Moosie - do you love Handley? If so, why?

[Harvey Specter]

Harvey, check out SSH for Derek Handley back on listing day last year. He has 11M+ shares that are directly his own.Why make a distinction between shares held by him as an individual and shares held by his investment company (Far East) which incidentally, he appears to have incorporated in the tax haven of Hong Kong (Its not a NZ company).

Edit: is Far East only his? His company I think is China Scott, which is also Hong Kong registered.

[robbo24]

I am most definitely still on the straight side of the fence and he is not in my woodland creature family so that would be a solid no. Do ypu fall in love with everyone you analyse/investigate? (I hope not if your studying moi!)

I didn't mean romantic love, I should have been more specific. Your forum-disposition tends to suggest a certain level of respect for the man. Does my perception of your forum-disposition reflect, perhaps, an idolization of sorts?

The reason I ask is that sometimes your discussion of the somewhat complicated relationships between Handley's snakes is irrationally optimistic... Do you give any weight to the counter-Handley discussion, or is it all hogwash?

[Copper]

All this getting too mind boggling and off the beaten track.Look at the market???

SNK and GEO are having a race to the bottom and it's a dead heat at present.You might say they
are both " Going like a bomb"

[000831]

Can I say this guy learned a lot of stuff from New York last decade, planned SNK for the back door listing. stealing money from major retail investors after selling his initial shares that worth 0.5c few months later as company went to the public. Meanwhile, he uses far east trading ltd dumped the share and pays no tax, because the firm is registered in HK.

More, he is planning to get ASX listed afterwards. Similar strategy will be employed and try to complete this before market turns to bearish. May sell SNK later because of financial crisis.

Other company founders also sell shares after listed, when the price and company grows after years.

[Balance]

ILife is all about balance :)

What a frightful thought!

[000831]

Geoffrey Handley raising $100m for mobile-only tech fundChris Keall | Friday December 20, 2013
Share on facebook (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/geoffrey-handley-raising-100m-mobile-focused-investment-fund-ck-eniac-3-p-150369#) Share on twitter (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/geoffrey-handley-raising-100m-mobile-focused-investment-fund-ck-eniac-3-p-150369#) Share on linkedin (http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php?v=300&winname=addthis&pub=xa-51101acf2fae63fe&source=tbx-300&lng=en-NZ&s=linkedin&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbr.co.nz%2Farticle%2Fgeoffre y-handley-raising-100m-mobile-focused-investment-fund-ck-eniac-3-p-150369&title=Geoffrey%20Handley%20raising%20%24100m%20for %20mobile-only%20tech%20fund%20%7C%20The%20National%20Busine ss%20Review&ate=AT-xa-51101acf2fae63fe/-/-/52e083b0fa7aec61/2&frommenu=1&uid=52e083b0f52bf182&ct=1&pre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbr.co.nz%2Fcategory%2Fcatego ry%2Fderek-handley&tt=0&captcha_provider=nucaptcha) Share on email (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/geoffrey-handley-raising-100m-mobile-focused-investment-fund-ck-eniac-3-p-150369#) More Sharing Services (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/geoffrey-handley-raising-100m-mobile-focused-investment-fund-ck-eniac-3-p-150369#)


http://www.nbr.co.nz/sites/default/files/imagecache/article_image/Geoffrey-Handley-2.jpgGeoffrey Handley
(http://www.nbr.co.nz/sites/default/files/imagecache/article_image_full/Geoffrey-Handley-2.jpg)




Twitter IPO in the bag, Derek Handley's Iliad fund names four targets (http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/twitter-ipo-bag-derek-handleys-iliad-fund-names-four-more-targets-CK)


Last month, Derek Handley was in NBR talking up (http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/twitter-ipo-bag-derek-handleys-iliad-fund-names-four-more-targets-CK) his Iliad fund.
Now, with just a hint of sibling rivalry, his older brother Geoffrey has hit town, pushing the Eniac 3 fund.
Where Iliad is a single-digit millions affair, Geoffrey Handley (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/geoffrey-handley/0/127/416) is looking to raise $US100 million for Eniac Ventures (http://eniac.vc/)’ third fund, Eniac 3.
This is a bigger story than brother vs brother; Handley is one of five Eniac general partners. The others are New York-based entrepreneurs Nihal Mehta (https://twitter.com/eniacvc), Hadley Harris (https://twitter.com/Hadley), Vic Singh (https://twitter.com/vicsingh) and the San Francisco-based engineer-turned-IP lawyer Tim Young (https://twitter.com/timy0ung). Eniac was formed in 2009, but its founders have been kicking around together since the dotcom boom.
Geoffrey Handley will be the public face of Eniac 3 in this part of the world.
He’ll start roadshows in February, targeting investors in New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong, China and other Asia Pacific countries.
The minimum investment is $500,000.
“We’re not going to be playing around with $10,000 or $20,000,” he tells NBR.
He adds. “There’s some flexibility. Eniac has never looked outside the US, so we’re testing people’s appetite.”
Eniac 3 will focus exclusively on mobile-first and mobile-only startups on the US east and west coasts.
Handley says the fund will give Asia-Pacific investors the chance to own a piece of the action when companies are at a very early stage.
If all goes to plan, the mobile startups will be bought for big bucks. Handley notes the likes of Facebook, LinkedIn and Twitter have raised tens of billions by going public over the past couple of years. They’re spending a chunk of that money on startups.
Whereas Elias “buys you a ticket to the IPO party,” in Geoffrey Handley’s words, Eniac’s model is to put seed or angel funding into early-stage startups.
“It’s an opportunity to get in at the ground floor,” he says. (Though of course, with some startups the experience is going to be more akin to falling down the lift shaft.)
The fund takes one or two board seats at that time, which it relinquishes when the startup has its first round of venture capital funding, and VC reps come come onboard as directors. It typically keeps its shares through to an IPO. Handley says Eniac is often dealing with kids (http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomiogeron/2012/06/25/dont-try-this-at-home-how-vungle-broke-in-to-silicon-valley/) straight out of MIT or Standford; he and other partners add hands-on direction in the pre-VC phase.
Along the ways, the Eniac crew has formed close relationships with other angel investors, Handley says, including Twitter and Square founder Jack Dorsey, Google Ventures Kevin "Digg" Rose and Ashton Kutcher (yes, that Ashton Kutcher; the Hollywood actor is a "surprisingly successful (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/06/ashton-kutchers-surprisingly-successful-tech-investments/240367/)" tech entrepreneur on the side).
http://www.nbr.co.nz/sites/default/files/images/hyperfactory_2010.jpg
Derek and Geoff Handley in New York in 2010 around the time of their $NZ40 million Meredith deal.
Eniac is US-based fund. Handley says there are no issues with double-taxation or other complications for New Zealand investors. Each investor becomes a limited partner who receives a dividend each time the fund cashes out of one of its investments.
Early-stage companies are of course high risk, and angel investors look for a few big hits to outweigh the inevitable busts.
With its first to funds, Eniac invested around $US200,000 to $US300,000 into each company.
Being privately held, it doesn’t publish accounts, but Handley says its first two funds have had “triple digit” returns.
And it’s public knowledge that a couple of its early investments had stellar runs. One was Twitter. Another Eniac investment, Vungle recently raised $US6.5 million in a series A round that included Google Ventures; Handley shows NBR some not-yet-public numbers from Vungle’s Series B round that are eye-popping.
Other names in Eniac’s portfolio are familiar to those who follow hot mobile and cloud startups. They include airbnb (http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/03/with-a-fresh-200m-in-the-bank-airbnb-built-a-replica-of-the-dr-strangelove-war-room-in-its-office/), SoundCloud (http://www.forbes.com/sites/livbuli/2013/11/23/from-edm-to-everything-soundcloud-broadens-their-horizons/), tapCommerce and Localytics (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/12/04/apple-black-friday-localytics/).
Beyond Google Ventures, VCs who’ve come in on Eniac 1 and Eniac 2 companies include Sequoia Capital, Khosla Ventures, Melo Ventures, Spark Capital and Softbank.
Why the focus on US mobile-only startups?
“The PC is dead,” Handley says.
As the smartphone and tablet boom continues, he sees the PC market reduced to a few terminals in the business-to-business market within a couple of years’ time.
And mobile is a space the Handleys know well.
My tabloid attempt at a sibling rivalry angle nothwithstanding, Derek and Geoffrey cofounded NZAX-listed mobile ad agency Snakk Media.
And before that, they’re best known for starting up then selling The HyperFactory (also a mobile ad agency).
The HyperFactory, originally based in Auckland, was sold to US media giant Meredith Corporation in two tranches over 2009 and 2010.
At the time, it was reported the transaction was worth a total $NZ55 million to $60 million.
This week, Geoffrey Handley tells NBR that after the good (earnouts) and the bad (the Kiwi dollar heading sharply in the wrong direction), the sale shook out to about $NZ40 million.
The HyperFactory was Meredith’s seventh mobile or web acquisition. After the deal was completed, in July 2010, Geoffrey Handley stayed on with Meridith for 12 months, seeing through the earnout period by organising the various mobile newcomers (with around 1000 staff total and billings of around $US212 million) into a single division, now known as MXM (http://www.mxmhyperfactory.com/). He finished up by hiring his successor, and scoring some Meredith stock as a bonus.
He then spent eight months off travelling before founding Snakk Media in Australia and hiring its initial staff.Derek Handley subsequently set up the NZ operation, and saw through Snakk's listing on the NZX Alternative exchange earlier this year (the company [NZAX:SNK (https://www.nzx.com/markets/NZAX/securities/SNK)] has a market cap around $NZ31 million; it recently reported (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/snakk-media-1h-sales-soar-bd-149473) a 148% rise in half-year revenue to $3 million, and a loss of just under $1 million).
Now, he’s relocating to Shanghai – round zero in his fundraising efforts for Eniac 3, and also where his wife Anna has landed the role of managing director of PHD’s China operation.
Although he’s lived in the US for years, Asia Pacific is territory Geoffrey Handley knows well.
His family – a mix of Malay, Chinese and Arab roots - moved to NZ from Hong Kong to New Zealand when Geoffrey (now 38) was 17 and Derek 13. Their parents now live in Thailand.
He’ll be travelling the region over the next year drumming up support for Eniac 3 which, should it succeed in its fundraising, will dwarf Eniac 1 and 2.
It’s a new level of ambition, and it will find Geoffrey Handley in previous untapped territories, including Cambodia, in his search for capital.
And in the US, where Eniac 3 will invest, the mobile revolution is changing the landscape faster than anywhere else.
But some things haven’t changed. Handley says he’s still surrounded by familiar faces.
“We’re all part of what was a very small mobile community that has grown exponentially over the years - but leaders are the same.”
ckeall@nbr.co.nz (chris@chriskeall.com)

[couta1]

My head is spinning and all snaaked out reading this thread now,I feel the only cure may be to hit the sell button then I won't be drawn to read it so much but yeah/nah will wait till march and see what transpires and take a couple of panadols ever now and then to stop the spinning:cool: