OCA - Oceania Group - retirement villages

[bull....]

if anyone needs to talk to someone

Helplines & Support

https://mentalhealth.org.nz/helplines

[justakiwi]

Sadly, this comment speaks for itself, and says a lot about who you really are Beagle. There is nothing more I need to say.


Anyone can say thank you for the nuggets of gold other highly experienced investors share on here that help them make a lot of money. Words are cheap. The real way to express thanks is to show respect and give people a very wide degree of latitude with their posts all the time respecting that the nuggets of gold do not always come dressed up with pretty little bows and wrappers to your liking.

[Vee Vee]

Beagle your posts are mostly calling the PM names and complaining about the government. Open a Facebook account and post the tripe there.

As correctly pointed out comparing lockdown NZ to the "trenches" of Vietnam is way out of line. It's really offensive.

[dabsman]

When I need some time to reflect I always go back to first principles and listen to people I respect

https://youtu.be/RDrfE9I8_hs

Legend

[RGR367]

When I need some time to reflect I always go back to first principles and listen to people I respect

https://youtu.be/RDrfE9I8_hs

Legend

Yeah. Most followed Vulgar_ian comedian inciting an insurrection.
Let's just get our entertaintment on SKT please :p

[777]

JAK - let me give you a piece of advice love that took me about a full decade on here to learn.



Addressing someone "love" is as low as you can get.

[couta1]

Addressing someone "love" is as low as you can get. Well i wouldn't agree with this comment, a lot of the retirement village workers call the residents "love" and it is said in an affectionate way.

[dobby41]

Well i wouldn't agree with this comment, a lot of the retirement village workers call the residents "love" and it is said in an affectionate way.

It's a very British thing isn't it?
Certainly not a sign of disrespect or a put-down.

[Beagle]

I think this thread could really do with some humour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5azNpTwVk8
Have a good day folks.

[justakiwi]

That depends on the context. He knew what he was doing when he used it. I chose not to bite


It's a very British thing isn't it?
Certainly not a sign of disrespect or a put-down.

[Bjauck]

It's a very British thing isn't it?
Certainly not a sign of disrespect or a put-down. It is old fashioned? I remember hearing it frequently in NZ back in the 1980's. Depending on context "love" can be used sarcastically.

Fwiw, I think Beagle makes a good point. There are posters who provide good insights, even though they may have some opinions which do not necessarily concur with my own.

Magda Szubanski using "love" in a skit on Fast Forward. - about 2.06m in...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-9BXQf95uY

[Joh13]

SKT has it’s ASM tomorrow. Although their Mt Wellington building doesn’t fit the normal mould for OCA, there is a possibility that they have purchased it and if they have bought it we should know tomorrow.

[bull....]

i sold out , like watching the paint dry this stock no follow thru in buying after the big director buy. brought some more sek instead

[Bjauck]

i sold out , like watching the paint dry this stock no follow thru in buying after the big director buy. brought some more sek instead For how long did you have your shareholding in OCA?

[bull....]

For how long did you have your shareholding in OCA?

2 days lol

[couta1]

i sold out , like watching the paint dry this stock no follow thru in buying after the big director buy. brought some more sek instead But you already knew that yet you bought back in, this is a benchmark long term hold kinda stock so your stomping in the wrong arena.

[bull....]

But you already knew that yet you bought back in, this is a benchmark long term hold kinda stock so your stomping in the wrong arena.

oca a good trading stock , good volumes enable volume buying and selling

[bull....]

But you already knew that yet you bought back in, this is a benchmark long term hold kinda stock so your stomping in the wrong arena.

could be a long hold as well. did you know some researchers have found in research that if a person catches covid they may have an increased risk of dementia. so maybe oca better build more dementia units than care units?

[couta1]

could be a long hold as well. did you know some researchers have found in research that if a person catches covid they may have an increased risk of dementia. so maybe oca better build more dementia units than care units? They don't make their money from dementia units, if fact due to the extra care and damage to facilities it is a losing area of the business but necessary in order to provide the full continuum of care model.

[777]

Well i wouldn't agree with this comment, a lot of the retirement village workers call the residents "love" and it is said in an affectionate way.

It wasn't in an affectionate way here. Time and place.

[777]

Wow what a day. I have had my first negative reputation in 16 years and from the dog himself. How dare I comment on his posts.

Thread: OCA - Oceania Group - retirement villages
Rubbish and off topic

Back on my ignore list Mutt. I had only recently let you out for a run.

[Beagle]

Wow what a day. I have had my first negative reputation in 16 years and from the dog himself. How dare I comment on his posts.

Thread: OCA - Oceania Group - retirement villages
Rubbish and off topic

Back on my ignore list Mutt. I had only recently let you out for a run.

Which is exactly what it was. A lot of people seem to have this weird thing about negative rep and think of it as a personal attack. Its nothing but the opposite of positive rep which I frequently give when a post deserves positive rep. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't understand the rep system.
I wish a few more people would put me on their ignore list lol

[dabsman]

Well I just learnt there are reputation points last week. I got a negative point for saying I wouldnt piss on a MET director if they were on fire lol. Never a truer comment still to this day! Each to their own

[justakiwi]

The opposite of "positive" is "negative" so when you give someone a negative rep vote it most definitely is personal. The comments you add to your negative reps, are always personal. Go back through your past rep votes and read the comments. All of them, positive or negative, are personal comments.

I cannot believe we have gone through all this BS, to get to this point, over a simple, not in any way aggressive, generic request. It is beyond ridiculous. And yes, I realise I am contributing to the BS now, but I have not yet reached a place where I can "let it go." When I do, you will probably get your wish.



A lot of people seem to have this weird thing about negative rep and think of it as a personal attack. Its nothing but the opposite of positive rep which I frequently give when a post deserves positive rep. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't understand the rep system.

[sampson]

The opposite of "positive" is "negative" so when you give someone a negative rep vote it most definitely is personal. The comments you add to your negative reps, are always personal. Go back through your past rep votes and read the comments. All of them, positive or negative, are personal comments.

I cannot believe we have gone through all this BS, to get to this point, over a simple, not in any way aggressive, generic request. It is beyond ridiculous. And yes, I realise I am contributing to the BS now, but I have not yet reached a place where I can "let it go." When I do, you will probably get your wish.

We must be due him completely throwing his toys again and crying "ii'mmm callliinggg mmmyyy llawwwweeerrr". Nasty piece of work that one.

[Beagle]

Anyone else want to support this nonsense just let me know and I'll be happy to add you to my permanent ignore list as well.

Meanwhile back to OCA...looks like this is well and truly beached until the next high tide on 29 November.

[couta1]

Anyone else want to support this nonsense just let me know and I'll be happy to add you to my permanent ignore list as well.

Meanwhile back to OCA...looks like this is well and truly beached until the next high tide on 29 November. Still some big sellers out there, cross trade of 800k shares just went through at $1.415

[dompf]

Still some big sellers out there, cross trade of 800k shares just went through at $1.415

a big seller needs a big buyer. :-)

[Beagle]

Still some big sellers out there, cross trade of 800k shares just went through at $1.415

Hopefully our friend Greg Tomlinson stepping up for more. A very astute businessman.

[couta1]

a big seller needs a big buyer. :-) Yeah well thats what I was saying on the A2 thread, someone bought over 31 mill shares today across both markets. Lol

[Bjauck]

Its early days. The woeful level of ICU capacity that the Govt tried to spin has gone up has actually gone backwards according to leading specialists reports published last week and is now of third world standards. Hospitals will get overrun as sure as night follows day and then the bombing will really start. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds6mvK4olQ4

Looking through to the other side of this unfolding apocalypse the upshot of all this is that once the widespread carnage is over elderly people will crave the security of living in a care suite or an apartment knowing they can move to a care suite when necessary with the security of knowing they'll be looked after and OCA sales will go gangbusters and at record high prices, (if our new CEO is smart enough to put the prices up). I Just read this. Yep, NZ frittered away the initial Covid success. I hope you are not right. However, I am stir crazy in the middle of Auckland reading about large gatherings of folk which do not give a threepenny ‘hapenny (as my Granny would say) for health measures, so I fear for the worst.

And yes I think too that retirement villages have come out of this, as the safer place to be.

[Beagle]

I Just read this. Yep, NZ frittered away the initial Covid success. I hope you are not right. However, I am stir crazy in the middle of Auckland reading about large gatherings of folk which do not give a threepenny ‘hapenny (as my Granny would say) for health measures, so I fear for the worst.

And yes I think too that retirement villages have come out of this, as the safer place to be.

I REALLY hope I'm wrong about the first paragraph too ! Unfortunately my nose for for a feed and for trouble coming seems to have been working remarkably well lately.

Its going to take a good king tide to lift this whale off the beach in late November. In the long run though, this should be all good.

[bull....]

Hopefully our friend Greg Tomlinson stepping up for more. A very astute businessman.

looks like sellers have overwhelmed his buying

[alokdhir]

Whale has come back fully ...deeper into the sand !!

All the stocks whose results round the corner are under pressure ....MFT , FPH and OCA ...

[Greekwatchdog]

Just thinking about the selling. Didn't Macquarie's get some DRP shares after they sold all there holding. Can't remember the full details..

[couta1]

Whale has come back fully ...deeper into the sand !!

All the stocks whose results round the corner are under pressure ....MFT , FPH and OCA ... Save this Whale by buying shovels to dig it out, I am. Lol

[winner69]

Save this Whale by buying shovels to dig it out, I am. Lol

Wonder which tribe will claim rights to this whale.

[bull....]

looks like the 1.30 might be back on again

[jimdog31]

looks like the 1.30 might be back on again

Nope…. i tried to buy bulk off market and got told theyd run out.

[couta1]

looks like the 1.30 might be back on again Dreams are free so you had better start loading up a few now for your next 2 day hold. Lol

[Beat the Bank]

scaremongering again,,, ahhhh. Never trust a traders hype on here newcomers. Nearly as bad as the politics :)
I just got another lot at $1.40, already over weight but its hard to find alternatives to cash being inflated down. This feels like a safe car park. I cannot see property collapsing and the retirement sector offers security and inelasticity of demand.

[couta1]

scaremongering again,,, ahhhh. Never trust a traders hype on here newcomers. Nearly as bad as the politics :)
I just got another lot at $1.40, already over weight but its hard to find alternatives to cash being inflated down. This feels like a safe car park. I cannot see property collapsing and the retirement sector offers security and inelasticity of demand. I just cant see a better stock on the NZX to buy as far as long term return is concerned as this one and I've been over most of the others with a pretty fine comb. Don't see much point in buying and holding divvy paying stocks right now in a rising interest rate environment which will continue to worsen over the next few yrs.

[Beagle]

Whole market is in a funk...doubt this whale will refloat anytime soon.

[Greekwatchdog]

Aren't whales endangered list?

[bull....]

as said yesterday , growth area is dementia units

[Bjauck]

Would there be some switching pressure to Arvida - with its rights issue funding its new purchase?

[couta1]

as said yesterday , growth area is dementia units No point in growing an area where you lose money, its a loss leader unless the Govt steps up to the plate with a lot more funding.

[bull....]

No point in growing an area where you lose money, its a loss leader unless the Govt steps up to the plate with a lot more funding.

i thought wealthy people paid for there care till they only got 200k odd left or are all the people in oca at the poorer end of town?

[Beagle]

https://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/like+a+beached+whale.html

"so if you are completely stuck somewhere and can't get away, you are stranded like a beached whale".

Can't sell now, its too low, don't want to buy more because its beached and unlikely to go higher anytime soon. I guess I'm now a "Beached Beagle" lol.

[winner69]

https://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/like+a+beached+whale.html

The nice guys at Project Jonah will come to the rescue ….and the whale will continue its journey with renewed vigour

[couta1]

i thought wealthy people paid for there care till they only got 200k odd left or are all the people in oca at the poorer end of town? Unless there are premium rooms available then it doesn't make the company any more dosh from having private paying residents over subsidised residents.

[bullfrog]

Whole market is in a funk...doubt this whale will refloat anytime soon.

lucky it’s a killer dolphin then… Orcinus OrCA

[Rawz]

What’s the mystical dark arts, known as TA, say about OCA? I thought the $1.40s would have held 😕

[Beagle]

What’s the mystical dark arts, known as TA, say about OCA? I thought the $1.40s would have held ��

It doesn't give any encouragement (despite some being badly needed).

[BlackPeter]

It doesn't give any encouragement (despite some being badly needed).

Well, yes, though I think I see a hanging candle .... which would be good sign :):

Up, up and away ...?

Anyway - that's stuff for traders - as an investor I don't see a reason not to buy or keep this stock.

[couta1]

It doesn't give any encouragement (despite some being badly needed). Compare it with the A2 chart and you will be greatly encouraged. Lol

[Baa_Baa]

Well, yes, though I think I see a hanging candle .... which would be good sign :):

Up, up and away ...?

Anyway - that's stuff for traders - as an investor I don't see a reason not to buy or keep this stock.

True for investors, there's not many long term value shares that are trading within a few % of their NTA. Best not to focus on the daily share price imo unless looking for an entry or accumulate.

[Beagle]

Well, yes, though I think I see a hanging candle .... which would be good sign :):

Up, up and away ...?

Anyway - that's stuff for traders - as an investor I don't see a reason not to buy or keep this stock.

AS long as we don't see an abandoned baby lying next to the whale we're all good ;)

[alokdhir]

I think Mr B is showing signs of lockdown fatigue ...we all in AKL are troubled souls at the moment ....but Mr B is having some vaccination debate trouble at home too to add to the pressure . I fully understand that strife in the mind as had experienced the same within my extended family .

Thats making him very different these days ....He is a very objective analyser and his readings are mostly correct and it helps many here to get his confirmation too about the stocks we hold . But these days he is little down and pessimistic about many things like OCA ...This will also pass ...we know from world experience that all countries have gone thru this widespread community covid time and then they started to ignore it ...NZ will also be same

This is short term blip to sentiment which will recover when 90% hit and markets are euphoric that never again any lockdowns ...just endemic Covid in the community forever . All will learn to manage that in real life after managing it in mind first

OCA surely is a dog amongst Retirement Village stocks ...always underperforms ...not a good sign that its not a market leader in any category but maybe it will be in times ahead ...leader of the common masses ...more volumes ...less margins model with small offerings of all other types also in the portfolio .

I think its heading close to 135 but it should be good buy now for medium term investors who have faith in deep analysis of many here including Mr B ...though at present he is not sounding very positive ...:p

[ADogsLife]

Ok, so here goes. First post, long time lurker and passive observer.

Like many of you I’m excessively overweight in OCA, mostly due to the repetitive press of the buy button late March 2020.

Whilst having a portfolio size well below what I suspect some you old dogs are sitting on, and well done to you, I feel it time to throw in my 5 cents worth, if one can value it to that degree.
Over time I have developed a toolbox of resources that assist my decision making regards which stock and how much to invest, and as some of you commented recently, OCA remains on my buy list with whatever spare cash I can find under my wife’s side of the bed. Objective: wealth generation for retirement which scarily gets closer and closer.

Such tools include my self-learnt interpretation of charting, deep diving into financial accounts (as much as my small brain can understand) online resources of which there are many, even including the entertaining Joshua Wang and his insightful youtube comparison of OCA to peers. Marketscreener, which can only look at the fundamentals even holds a solid buy recommendation with average target price of $1.71. Avoiding too much weight on any individual resource, putting them all together and comparing each retirement stock, NTA’s etc my conviction remains firmly in favour of OCA.

So the analytical side of my brain maintains high conviction for this stock. But that’s not the issue. Sharetrader, which I’m sure was established to assist learning, sharing analysis (safer to stay with the pack perhaps?) and providing a forum for the exchange of insightful experience has instead for me become the test of ones emotion towards a stock. Comments aimed toward driving fear or greed at extremes need moderation and I try to avoid reacting when I read such. If I do react, why? Self-analysis is tough at the best of times….

Back to OCA, the decline of OCA correlates to specific events that exacerbate the selling pressure especially with this stock. Whether it be a suggestion of Govt intervention, property price predictions on the back of rising interest rates, the Cap raise, Earl’s selldown and currently ARV’s raise necessitating some portfolio rebalancing. The corresponding decline in SP becomes self-perpetuating. Long term so what? Again, one needs to remember why they bought in the first place (unless of course you’re a trader). I agree with some that the large gap between news can be ‘testing’, but lets keep positive. Further drops in SP are nothing but an opportunity. Period!

I was one of the few scooping up more yesterday and if you can point me towards a better opportunity please do so. My portfolio remains firmly in 8 NZX stocks (1 growth), two ASX and I’ll leave Milford to deal with Kiwisaver. Several years ago during my ‘pre-formative’ years I must have had 20+ stocks, knew little to nothing about each and then grew up. This wasn’t a game, and as close to gambling it may be de-risking through learning became the objective. Not there yet but heading in the right direction.....

I won’t list specific names, however some of you I have the utmost respect for your valued contributions. For that reason I’ll continue to ‘lurk’ around these pages and offer something when I have something intelligent to say. Thank you. As for OCA, still some years off retirement and sleeping easy.

Best

[Bjauck]

https://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/like+a+beached+whale.html

"so if you are completely stuck somewhere and can't get away, you are stranded like a beached whale".

Can't sell now, its too low, don't want to buy more because its beached and unlikely to go higher anytime soon. I guess I'm now a "Beached Beagle" lol. It is easy to feel pessimistic these days . At least the production of metaphors is keeping up:)

How long a time frame is your "anytime soon"? Because as long as you do not need the funds soon, it sounds like you may have optimism for the longer term prospects.

[Beagle]

I think Mr B is showing signs of lockdown fatigue ...we all in AKL are troubled souls at the moment ....but Mr B is having some vaccination debate trouble at home too to add to the pressure . I fully understand that strife in the mind as had experienced the same within my extended family .

Thats making him very different these days ....He is a very objective analyser and his readings are mostly correct and it helps many here to get his confirmation too about the stocks we hold . But these days he is little down and pessimistic about many things like OCA ...This will also pass ...we know from world experience that all countries have gone thru this widespread community covid time and then they started to ignore it ...NZ will also be same

This is short term blip to sentiment which will recover when 90% hit and markets are euphoric that never again any lockdowns ...just endemic Covid in the community forever . All will learn to manage that in real life after managing it in mind first

OCA surely is a dog amongst Retirement Village stocks ...always underperforms ...not a good sign that its not a market leader in any category but maybe it will be in times ahead ...leader of the common masses ...more volumes ...less margins model with small offerings of all other types also in the portfolio .

I think its heading close to 135 but it should be good buy now for medium term investors who have faith in deep analysis of many here including Mr B ...though at present he is not sounding very positive ...:p

Thanks, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Below- posted 27 October sums up how I feel although the recent metaphor's add a bit more colour to it lol

Looking through to the other side of this unfolding apocalypse the upshot of all this is that once the widespread carnage is over elderly people will crave the security of living in a care suite or an apartment knowing they can move to a care suite when necessary with the security of knowing they'll be looked after and OCA sales will go gangbusters and at record high prices, (if our new CEO is smart enough to put the prices up).

Provided there is no regulatory attack on this sector OCA should do very well in the long run.

[peat]

What’s the mystical dark arts, known as TA, say about OCA? I thought the $1.40s would have held 

support range 1.30 - 1.40 so poking its head down here isnt really a biggie imo

13152

note it even tested the 1.20,s at one point.

[bottomfeeder]

Could be a takeover offer coming, after a stock dumping. Now down over 20 cents from its high, which wasn't that high. Keep positive.

[dompf]

Could be a takeover offer coming, after a stock dumping. Now down over 20 cents from its high, which wasn't that high. Keep positive.

this was on my mind as well. I hope this isn’t the case though, not enough listed companies in NZ as it is.

[Rawz]

Ok, so here goes. First post, long time lurker and passive observer.

Like many of you I’m excessively overweight in OCA, mostly due to the repetitive press of the buy button late March 2020.

Whilst having a portfolio size well below what I suspect some you old dogs are sitting on, and well done to you, I feel it time to throw in my 5 cents worth, if one can value it to that degree.
Over time I have developed a toolbox of resources that assist my decision making regards which stock and how much to invest, and as some of you commented recently, OCA remains on my buy list with whatever spare cash I can find under my wife’s side of the bed. Objective: wealth generation for retirement which scarily gets closer and closer.

Such tools include my self-learnt interpretation of charting, deep diving into financial accounts (as much as my small brain can understand) online resources of which there are many, even including the entertaining Joshua Wang and his insightful youtube comparison of OCA to peers. Marketscreener, which can only look at the fundamentals even holds a solid buy recommendation with average target price of $1.71. Avoiding too much weight on any individual resource, putting them all together and comparing each retirement stock, NTA’s etc my conviction remains firmly in favour of OCA.

So the analytical side of my brain maintains high conviction for this stock. But that’s not the issue. Sharetrader, which I’m sure was established to assist learning, sharing analysis (safer to stay with the pack perhaps?) and providing a forum for the exchange of insightful experience has instead for me become the test of ones emotion towards a stock. Comments aimed toward driving fear or greed at extremes need moderation and I try to avoid reacting when I read such. If I do react, why? Self-analysis is tough at the best of times….

Back to OCA, the decline of OCA correlates to specific events that exacerbate the selling pressure especially with this stock. Whether it be a suggestion of Govt intervention, property price predictions on the back of rising interest rates, the Cap raise, Earl’s selldown and currently ARV’s raise necessitating some portfolio rebalancing. The corresponding decline in SP becomes self-perpetuating. Long term so what? Again, one needs to remember why they bought in the first place (unless of course you’re a trader). I agree with some that the large gap between news can be ‘testing’, but lets keep positive. Further drops in SP are nothing but an opportunity. Period!

I was one of the few scooping up more yesterday and if you can point me towards a better opportunity please do so. My portfolio remains firmly in 8 NZX stocks (1 growth), two ASX and I’ll leave Milford to deal with Kiwisaver. Several years ago during my ‘pre-formative’ years I must have had 20+ stocks, knew little to nothing about each and then grew up. This wasn’t a game, and as close to gambling it may be de-risking through learning became the objective. Not there yet but heading in the right direction.....

I won’t list specific names, however some of you I have the utmost respect for your valued contributions. For that reason I’ll continue to ‘lurk’ around these pages and offer something when I have something intelligent to say. Thank you. As for OCA, still some years off retirement and sleeping easy.

Best

Great first post and welcome.

WB says be greedy when people are fearful... time to be greedy

[Beagle]

Adding my warm welcome to you ADogsLife. Excellent first post. We need some fresh perspective around here and you've certainly made a good first impression !

[bull....]

A resident at Edmonton Meadows retirement village in Henderson has been confirmed as having COVID-19.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300440868/covid19-live-125-new-covid-cases-2-in-christchurch


this is the big risk to retirement villages

[Greekwatchdog]

1 case is a big ask? Safer there than in general public. You just love to hate the stock. No idea why you buy into it as your only in it for a quick buck and love to downplay it. Wish you would F*** OFF from it.

[aquaman]

A resident at Edmonton Meadows retirement village in Henderson has been confirmed as having COVID-19.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300440868/covid19-live-125-new-covid-cases-2-in-christchurch


this is the big risk to retirement villages

Why would you place this comment on OCA and not on https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?11659-Retirement-village-operators as this applies to all

[dompf]

1 case is a big ask? Safer there than in general public. You just love to hate the stock. No idea why you buy into it as your only in it for a quick buck and love to downplay it. Wish you would F*** OFF from it.

I really don’t think sharetrader has much impact on a billion dollar business.

certain inevitability to rest homes etc having some cases; doubt this takes the market by any surprise.

[Bjauck]

Why would you place this comment on OCA and not on https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?11659-Retirement-village-operators as this applies to all

Edmonton Meadows is owned by Henderson Healthcare, which is not listed on the NZX.

"Both staff and residents at the village have very high vaccination rates." To be honest, I would hope that ALL staff and ALL residents (unless for medical reasons) should be vaccinated.

[winner69]

Edmonton Meadows is owned by Henderson Healthcare, which is not listed on the NZX.

"Both staff and residents at the village have very high vaccination rates." To be honest, I would hope that ALL staff and ALL residents (unless for medical reasons) should be vaccinated.

Seems this thread is where one discusses retirement sector matters anyway

Maybe bull was just saying all sector participants re exposed to covid ....and reminding us it does happen

[bottomfeeder]

I wonder if Edmonton Meadows uses the same safe constraints as Arvida and Oceania.

[bull....]

1 case is a big ask? Safer there than in general public. You just love to hate the stock. No idea why you buy into it as your only in it for a quick buck and love to downplay it. Wish you would F*** OFF from it.

just goes too show even 2 year old.s come on this site. too think my comments have such a large impact on share prices ... well thankyou dick..head

[Greekwatchdog]

Itsd not the effect on share price its your constant dribble..Go elsewhere..

[bull....]

Itsd not the effect on share price its your constant dribble..Go elsewhere..

dribble only to the uninformed lol to the real investors well worth it

[JohnnyTheHorse]

just goes too show even 2 year old.s come on this site. too think my comments have such a large impact on share prices ... well thankyou dick..head

Don't bite mate. People get emotional when they're losing money.

[Beagle]

Itsd not the effect on share price its your constant dribble..Go elsewhere..

Hi mate,

Its been quite a week on this thread ! I put three posters on ignore this week, permanently. I look at it as a toxic pollution filter and if anyone else who contributes nothing of real worth gets under my skin enough they'll get added to my list. That's a better response that telling someone to....F off in my opinion.

For what its worth I find bull a bit annoying at times and at others I quite like him and he adds a different perspective.
Yes I think its a bit irrelevant that someone in some other facility not owned by OCA has got Covid as we're all well aware of the risk already.
Anyway back to OCA. I just had a nice walk and my goodness I reckon the grass growing has more movement that this beached whale lol

[Greekwatchdog]

Thanks Beagle, thats the Greek. Zero tolerance for constant dribble he writes. Take it easy up Akl. Feel for you all. Greg

[couta1]

Hi mate,

Its been quite a week on this thread ! I put three posters on ignore this week, permanently. I look at it as a toxic pollution filter and if anyone else who contributes nothing of real worth gets under my skin enough they'll get added to my list. That's a better response that telling someone to....F off in my opinion.

For what its worth I find bull a bit annoying at times and at others I quite like him and he adds a different perspective.
Yes I think its a bit irrelevant that someone in some other facility not owned by OCA has got Covid as we're all well aware of the risk already.
Anyway back to OCA. I just had a nice walk and my goodness I reckon the grass growing has more movement that this beached whale lol A resident in a random 28 bed rest home gets a positive Covid case, so what and nothing to see here, even if the case was in an OCA home it should not be a huge surprise to anyone or the market. Bull is a pure trader and has very little understanding of this industry, he has proven that over many years now.

[dompf]

Bull is very good - he calls the momentum it’s what he does. And he isn’t wrong but he ain’t in shares for a long time just a good time

[Dlownz]

Got in some more today just before it picked up at close today. Great timing and I look forward to the end of November.
From memory $1.35 jan/feb 2020. Beginning of March $1.15 after mac sold out.
Low of 40cents covid crash
Reached high of $1.60
Back to $1.40 16 months after being $1.35.
With all the realestate gains, new builds plus full occupation at most sites. What am I missing.
It can't stay here forever 😁.

[justakiwi]

Beagle, pretty sure you won't read this as I have no doubt I am top of your list of "newly ignored" people. But I'm going to say this anyway. You and I have butted heads in the past, culminating in a threat of legal action from you. I made the decision to put that behind us, and we worked to "build bridges." When I posted my request the other day, I didn't for one minute expect it to turn into a full blown hate fest. I consider your reaction to such a simple (and not even remotely aggressive) request to everyone, not just you, completely over the top. By all means put me on ignore if it makes you feel better, but you need to recognise and assume some responsibility for your contribution to the "toxic pollution" on this site. It seems to me that you have little insight into how you come across to others, or into the way you treat, speak to and react to people and situations. Your narrative below demonstrates that. It saddens me that the bridge you and I built some time back, clearly meant less to you than it did to me. But in hindsight, I realize that was me being naive. Guess that makes me the fool. I make no apologies for posting this publicly, and will not be saying any more on the subject.

Time to put this to bed and get back to what we are all here for.


Hi mate,
Its been quite a week on this thread ! I put three posters on ignore this week, permanently. I look at it as a toxic pollution filter and if anyone else who contributes nothing of real worth gets under my skin enough they'll get added to my list

[Chinesekiwi]

I, for one, appreciate your posts.

You do not behave in a duplicitous manner - you're forthright and honest.





Beagle, pretty sure you won't read this as I have no doubt I am top of your list of "newly ignored" people. But I'm going to say this anyway. You and I have butted heads in the past, culminating in a threat of legal action from you. I made the decision to put that behind us, and we worked to "build bridges." When I posted my request the other day, I didn't for one minute expect it to turn into a full blown hate fest. I consider your reaction to such a simple (and not even remotely aggressive) request to everyone, not just you, completely over the top. By all means put me on ignore if it makes you feel better, but you need to recognise and assume some responsibility for your contribution to the "toxic pollution" on this site. It seems to me that you have little insight into how you come across to others, or into the way you treat, speak to and react to people and situations. Your narrative below demonstrates that. It saddens me that the bridge you and I built some time back, clearly meant less to you than it did to me. But in hindsight, I realize that was me being naive. Guess that makes me the fool. I make no apologies for posting this publicly, and will not be saying any more on the subject.

Time to put this to bed and get back to what we are all here for.

[Panda-NZ-]

Why can't we have deuls like the good old days.

It seems like beagle has offended your honour *slaps glove*.

[Playa]

I wonder if some people will delay buying into a retirement village, until it is absolutely necessary, due to potential future covid restrictions and family being unable to visit?

[justakiwi]

Once vaccination rates are up to the desired level, I don't believe aged care facilities will place blanket bans on visiting. I think down the track fully vaccinated visitors will be allowed to visit without too many restrictions. It may be, that if there is a local outbreak, they will temporarily go back to restricted visiting eg: masks and visiting in resident's room only, but I don't think that will be the norm.

Providers have done an excellent job of ensuring that residents can still have social interactions with family. During lock downs we have set up barriers outside so residents can sit out in the sun in one area, and family can chat to them from behind the barrier (3-4 metres apart). That has worked well for us, as long as the weather obliges. We have utilised video calls like zoom or Messenger, and there are always phone calls. Our residents have been incredibly accepting of any measures we have had to put in place.

If these residents were living in their own homes, they would not be allowed visitors during lock downs (other than one "bubble" person) but they would be much more isolated than they are living in a facility with other residents and staff. We are more like one big family than people realise, especially in smaller facilities. Good caregivers know that social contact and interaction with residents is as, if not more, important, than providing cares/practical support. It is the conversations, the laugh till we pee moments, the empathy and compassion, and the expression of genuine love and caring, that residents cherish and remember. Not the number of times you have helped them shower.

I honestly don't see this being an issue, or even a real consideration to anyone looking at moving into an aged care scenario.


I wonder if some people will delay buying into a retirement village, until it is absolutely necessary, due to potential future covid restrictions and family being unable to visit?

[FatTed]

Trouble is fully vaccinated is three doses thats what the science says at the moment. Not sure when NZ will follow the evidence.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/27/data-israel-covid-booster-shots-standard

[couta1]

Trouble is fully vaccinated is three doses thats what the science says at the moment. Not sure when NZ will follow the evidence.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/27/data-israel-covid-booster-shots-standard Israel is now talking of a fourth dose being required, the waning effectiveness of this vaccine means nobody has any clue as to how many doses will be required at the end of the day, pin cushion anyone?

[maclir]

Trouble is fully vaccinated is three doses thats what the science says at the moment. Not sure when NZ will follow the evidence.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/27/data-israel-covid-booster-shots-standard

Government intends to start boosters before Christmas using Pfizer, and then is "expecting to receive the bulk of the 5.36 million vaccine courses purchased from Novavax in the first quarter of next year".

[winner69]

Israel is now talking of a fourth dose being required, the waning effectiveness of this vaccine means nobody has any clue as to how many doses will be required at the end of the day, pin cushion anyone?

As I’ve said it’s really a matter of taking ‘medicine’ on a regular basis to reduce how sick you might get

Like ‘an apple a day keeps the doctor away’ …not quite daily but getting close to it.

[BlackPeter]

Israel is now talking of a fourth dose being required, the waning effectiveness of this vaccine means nobody has any clue as to how many doses will be required at the end of the day, pin cushion anyone?

Pin cushion? Pretty stupid comment isn't it? Many people are quite happy to receive an annual flu shot.

Are you afraid of needles? Some kids are ... :p;

Anyway - what is the alternative? You can either take the jab (with boosters as necessary) or you can get the virus "vaccinating" you. The odds to stay healthy and alive are significantly better if you take the jab instead of the infection.

[couta1]

Pin cushion? Pretty stupid comment isn't it? Many people are quite happy to receive an annual flu shot.

Are you afraid of needles? Some kids are ... :p;

Anyway - what is the alternative? You can either take the jab (with boosters as necessary) or you can get the virus "vaccinating" you. The odds to stay healthy and alive are significantly better if you take the jab instead of the infection. Bit tongue in cheek that comment but you may not have picked up on that, never had a flu shot by the way, scared of needles well no as I'm very good at giving them and receiving them (During my training eons ago we had to practice on each other after graduating from oranges) Also injected myself when I had minor running injuries with local in order to keep training (Hard to do and a bit naughty)

[bottomfeeder]

Israel is now talking of a fourth dose being required, the waning effectiveness of this vaccine means nobody has any clue as to how many doses will be required at the end of the day, pin cushion anyone?

Could be the biggest fraud in history. Pfizer gets rich, and we are the Guinea pigs. Still this is the best chance we have got. No alternative at this stage.

[Panda-NZ-]

Could be the biggest fraud in history. Pfizer gets rich, and we are the Guinea pigs. Still this is the best chance we have got. No alternative at this stage.

Is pfizer rich though?
One doesn't get rich through vaccines.

Regeneron is though for their inferior anti-body treatment (when compared to a vaccine).

[couta1]

Is pfizer rich though?
One doesn't get rich through vaccines.

Regeneron is though for their inferior anti-body treatment (when compared to a vaccine). Your kidding right? From Pfizers last report in July they had a 92% increase in revenue in the 2nd quarter and an upgraded full year guidance of 78-80 billion,33.5 billion will come from sales of the Covid vaccine alone. These guys are creaming it for sure.

[Panda-NZ-]

Not much at all compared to other companies.

Esp in per person terms. A vaccine for billions vs a specialised treatment for less responsible people.

[BlackPeter]

Your kidding right? From Pfizers last report in July they had a 92% increase in revenue in the 2nd quarter and an upgraded full year guidance of 78-80 billion,they made 33.5 billion from the Covid vaccine alone. These guys are creaming it for sure.

Quite meaningless numbers. Lets face it - nearly all companies had a quite amazing percentage increase in revenue and earnings since Q2/2020. This has nothing to do with creaming it, just recovering from the big Covid dip.

Remember ANZ's numbers yesterday? They just returned from quite low numbers back to normal ... and so did Pfizer.

[couta1]

Quite meaningless numbers. Lets face it - nearly all companies had a quite amazing percentage increase in revenue and earnings since Q2/2020. This has nothing to do with creaming it, just recovering from the big Covid dip.

Remember ANZ's numbers yesterday? They just returned from quite low numbers back to normal ... and so did Pfizer. Not meaningless in relation to the vaccine though when you consider that around 45% of their total revenue will come just from this alone, check out how many products these guys produce to give that figure some context.

[Baa_Baa]

Not meaningless in relation to the vaccine though when you consider that around 45% of their total revenue will come just from this alone, check out how many products these guys produce to give that figure some context.

And annual revenues up to 2020 were relatively flat annually around US$40b, then since revenues have exploded.

[Snow Leopard]

Any of you know where the Oceania discussion thread is?

[justakiwi]

Nope. Been searching for it all week, but seems to have gone AWOL. Was tempted to start a new "OCA without distractions" thread ;)


Any of you know where the Oceania discussion thread is?

[couta1]

Any of you know where the Oceania discussion thread is? Its down at the beach lying on its tummy, have you got anything exciting and new to say about this boring/beached whale?

[dobby41]

Your kidding right? From Pfizers last report in July they had a 92% increase in revenue in the 2nd quarter and an upgraded full year guidance of 78-80 billion,33.5 billion will come from sales of the Covid vaccine alone. These guys are creaming it for sure.

92% increase in revenue - what was the increase in profit? That's what really counts.
ie - do they sell at much of a profit?

[winner69]

A resident in a random 28 bed rest home gets a positive Covid case, so what and nothing to see here, even if the case was in an OCA home it should not be a huge surprise to anyone or the market. Bull is a pure trader and has very little understanding of this industry, he has proven that over many years now.

One day later 8 residents and 1 staff all positive

The bug must have been there all the time and it was just by chance they tested somebody and it turned out +ve

[couta1]

One day later 8 residents and 1 staff all positive

The bug must have been there all the time and it was just by chance they tested somebody and it turned out +ve So far always in the smaller facilities, their protection measures not as tight in a lot of cases as the likes of RYM/SUM/OCA et al. I went into one smaller facility not that long ago and not one of the staff were wearing a mask, no temp check and no questionnaire.

[Bjauck]

One day later 8 residents and 1 staff all positive

The bug must have been there all the time and it was just by chance they tested somebody and it turned out +ve I would like to know how many of these covid positive residents had been vaccinated. As rest homes have stringent visiting policies in Auckland, I would like to know if the staff member initiated the outbreak and whether that staff member was fully vaccinated.

What stage are we at for the approval of the widespread use of user-operated lateral flow/ rapid testing?

[couta1]

I would like to know how many of these covid positive residents had been vaccinated. As rest homes have stringent visiting policies in Auckland. I would like to know if the staff member initiated the outbreak and whether that staff member was fully vaccinated.

I wonder why NZ has not widespread got user operated lateral flow/ rapid testing yet. They were all fully vaccinated as I understand.

[Bjauck]

They were all fully vaccinated as I understand.All staff but only “high levels” of vaccination among residents, according to this Stuff item:

“It’s important to note there are high levels of vaccination among residents of the home, and all staff are fully vaccinated,"

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126836499/covid19-160-new-community-cases-contacts-in-wellington-test-negative

[couta1]

92% increase in revenue - what was the increase in profit? That's what really counts.
ie - do they sell at much of a profit? About 50% on the Pfizer vaccine along, if you want to waste an hour or so go and have a study of their accounts, do you think they are in this for love or money?

[Teatree]

I read somewhere it costs a little over a US$1 to make and they sell it in a range of US$10 - 20

[moka]

Ok, so here goes. First post, long time lurker and passive observer.

So the analytical side of my brain maintains high conviction for this stock. But that’s not the issue. Sharetrader, which I’m sure was established to assist learning, sharing analysis (safer to stay with the pack perhaps?) and providing a forum for the exchange of insightful experience has instead for me become the test of ones emotion towards a stock. Comments aimed toward driving fear or greed at extremes need moderation and I try to avoid reacting when I read such. If I do react, why? Self-analysis is tough at the best of times….

For many people Sharetrader has become mainly a place to vent emotions, rather than sharing analysis of stocks. It has deteriorated over the years. I had a break for nearly a year and it is very noticeable how unhealthy and toxic it has become in the last year. Many of the comments are really negative, and name calling and personal attacks are common behaviour. Diversity is not welcome. Group think is preferred. I am surprised at how shallow the discussions are. Sometimes it is better for your mental health not to read Sharetrader.

[FTG]

For many people Sharetrader has become mainly a place to vent emotions, rather than sharing analysis of stocks. It has deteriorated over the years. I had a break for nearly a year and it is very noticeable how unhealthy and toxic it has become in the last year. Many of the comments are really negative, and name calling and personal attacks are common behaviour. Diversity is not welcome. Group think is preferred. I am surprised at how shallow the discussions are. Sometimes it is better for your mental health not to read Sharetrader.

The direction of the path that each thread on ST takes is simply a reflection of the state of mind of those that travel on that path.

Moka & ADogsLife; You have the power in your hands (keyboard fingers in this case!) to influence the path that this thread takes. If you wish to wield some of that power, perhaps you would be best to share with us your own analysis of OCA?

Place your analysis under the spotlight for others to consider, critique & respond to. It is only through the unbridled competition of thinking, opinions & ideas that real progress can be made; whatever the endeavour.

[moka]

I have never read the book 1984, but I see there is a nation of Oceania.

At the beginning of the book 1984, these words are presented as the official motto of the nation of Oceania:

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
— George Orwell, 1984

The words are written in enormous letters on the white pyramid of the Ministry of Truth, which considering that they are obvious contradictions, seems to be an odd place to put them.
Orwell opened his book in this way on purpose in order to introduce the reader to the concept of Doublethink, which is what allows the people of Oceania to live with constant contradictions in their lives. Doublethink is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in one’s mind simultaneously.

https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Meaning-of-War-is-Peace-Freedom-is-Slavery-and-Ignorance-is-Strength-in-Orwells-1984

[Beagle]

The NZX50 Gross index inclusive of all dividends paid year to date is down for the year and headed for the worst year in more than a decade. This sets the backdrop for the tone this year as well as we're going through the worst pandemic ever experienced in over 100 years.

I could say a lot more but its probably best I don't.

[Panda-NZ-]

The NZX50 Gross index inclusive of all dividends paid year to date is down for the year and headed for the worst year in more than a decade. This sets the backdrop for the tone this year as well as we're going through the worst pandemic ever experienced in over 100 years.

I could say a lot more but its probably best I don't.

2 Nov 2020- 12,000
29 Oct 2021 - 13100

For a combined one year gain of 8%. Which is much better than OCA (turns out its not that hard to beat).

[bull....]

heres a question for the people who work in retirement villages.

the outbreak at the henderson village last week has meant the stand -down of 1 staff member

what happens in an outbreak if a majority of staff members have to stand down ?

how will the village function



I see 2 of the fully vaccinated residents of the village are now in hospital

[bottomfeeder]

heres a question for the people who work in retirement villages.

the outbreak at the henderson village last week has meant the stand -down of 1 staff member

what happens in an outbreak if a majority of staff members have to stand down ?

how will the village function



I see 2 of the fully vaccinated residents of the village are now in hospital

Hate to be mercenary about the health of older people. They are still paying their full resthome costs, even though they are not eating, heating, monitoring and a few other ings. Looks like a win win for the resthome.

[bull....]

Hate to be mercenary about the health of older people. They are still paying their full resthome costs, even though they are not eating, heating, monitoring and a few other ings. Looks like a win win for the resthome.

thats true , but i was wondering from the staffing side of things if they are all on isolation how do you find replacement staff to keep things running

[couta1]

thats true , but i was wondering from the staffing side of things if they are all on isolation how do you find replacement staff to keep things running Its called agency and casual pool workers bull.

[bull....]

Its called agency and casual pool workers bull.

ok thx but is the pool of available people to call on large ? and if you have multiple villages needing people will it cover this ? i know in other industries if you call on say like labour hire the rates they charge would be higher than what a village pays its staff is that right. if so it would mean op costs to the village would be higher for the lenght of an outbreak?

[Rawz]

I assume they also spilt shifts? Run two different bubbles. That's what most co's of any scale are doing.

[couta1]

ok thx but is the pool of available people to call on large ? and if you have multiple villages needing people will it cover this ? i know in other industries if you call on say like labour hire the rates they charge would be higher than what a village pays its staff is that right. if so it would mean op costs to the village would be higher for the lenght of an outbreak? Yes agency workers come at a higher cost to the company but not casuals, a good manager knows how to keep agency need to a minimum and cultivate a good sized casual pool at all times.

[bull....]

Yes agency workers come at a higher cost to the company but not casuals, a good manager knows how to keep agency need to a minimum and cultivate a good sized casual pool at all times.

thx couta for your insight

[couta1]

I assume they also spilt shifts? Run two different bubbles. That's what most co's of any scale are doing. They run 3 shifts round the clock and working short staffed on any given shift is common in the industry and at some facilities it can become a chronic situation due to mismanagement.

[justakiwi]

I fully support the mandate that health workers must be vaccinated, but I can tell you this. It is causing havoc already. Our Nurse Manager refuses to get vaccinated so she is gone in a couple of weeks. Two care staff are following suit. Possibly one housekeeper. The rest of us are feeling anxious and stressed as we have not yet received any kind of direction from upper management in terms of what happens when they all walk out the door. I am on my three days off but all I can think about is work. This is all uncharted territory.

[bull....]

I fully support the mandate that health workers must be vaccinated, but I can tell you this. It is causing havoc already. Our Nurse Manager refuses to get vaccinated so she is gone in a couple of weeks. Two care staff are following suit. Possibly one housekeeper. The rest of us are feeling anxious and stressed as we have not yet received any kind of direction from upper management in terms of what happens when they all walk out the door. I am on my three days off but all I can think about is work. This is all uncharted territory.

cheers for the insight.
a problem for all in the industry for sure and something im working on now to factor this very issue into my analysis for all in the sector

[alokdhir]

I fully support the mandate that health workers must be vaccinated, but I can tell you this. It is causing havoc already. Our Nurse Manager refuses to get vaccinated so she is gone in a couple of weeks. Two care staff are following suit. Possibly one housekeeper. The rest of us are feeling anxious and stressed as we have not yet received any kind of direction from upper management in terms of what happens when they all walk out the door. I am on my three days off but all I can think about is work. This is all uncharted territory.

For many its becoming an EGO issue too ...as thinking is not about right or wrong or they know better etc ...but ..." How Dare u order me to get vaccinated " ...This will lead to some teething issues but eventually mandates will help lesser stand downs and mandatory isolations of staff

These are not ordinary times ...think of WW 2 in UK ...How the whole country rallied behind a very bossy leader ...But the real cause of War supported people's ego also ...so there were not many not doing the right thing at that time .

Moreover it was more shameful thing to be against your leader at that time . Now its more fashionable to be anti vax. as it makes u look strong and unique etc

[justakiwi]

I probably should add though, that I am in a regional town. So the available pool of casual or additional staff, is significantly smaller than it will be in the likes of Auckland, Nelson etc. So a very different situation to the likes of OCA etc.

I am concerned about how we will cope, staffing wise, if we get a case in our home.

I honestly don't know what the answers are to any of this. I guess time will tell.


cheers for the insight.
a problem for all in the industry for sure and something im working on now to factor this very issue into my analysis for all in the sector

[Ggcc]

I fully support the mandate that health workers must be vaccinated, but I can tell you this. It is causing havoc already. Our Nurse Manager refuses to get vaccinated so she is gone in a couple of weeks. Two care staff are following suit. Possibly one housekeeper. The rest of us are feeling anxious and stressed as we have not yet received any kind of direction from upper management in terms of what happens when they all walk out the door. I am on my three days off but all I can think about is work. This is all uncharted territory.
I feel for the ones left to catch the workload, but I do feel this is short term. The egos of the unvaccinated are getting in the way. They will eventually get the vaccine when they make it “their choice”.

I have witnessed many taking up
The vaccine when told they could not travel internationally without the jab. Next will be domestic travel within nz, which air nz and government were working on. I am fully vaccinated by choice by the advice from my doctor. He supports it so strongly, saying if you don’t believe in the science of the vaccine, don’t become a doctor, followed by something along the lines of natural selection will encourage the remainder to get the vaccine in a hurry.

[couta1]

I feel for the ones left to catch the workload, but I do feel this is short term. The egos of the unvaccinated are getting in the way. They will eventually get the vaccine when they make it “their choice”.

I have witnessed many taking up
The vaccine when told they could not travel internationally without the jab. Next will be domestic travel within nz, which air nz and government were working on. I am fully vaccinated by choice by the advice from my doctor. He supports it so strongly, saying if you don’t believe in the science of the vaccine, don’t become a doctor, followed by something along the lines of natural selection will encourage the remainder to get the vaccine in a hurry. Sounds just like a case of polarized thinking to me, I know plenty that are giving up their jobs in this industry and they won't be changing their minds.

[bull....]

I probably should add though, that this is a very small 32 bed rest home, in a regional town. So the available pool of casual or additional staff, is significantly smaller than it will be in the likes of Auckland, Nelson etc. We are also an NGO which means we don't have the funds (I assume) to increase staffing levels, offer incentives such as double time, in an emergency. The organization relies heavily on staff goodwill. So a very different situation to the likes of OCA etc.

I honestly don't know what the answer is, nor do I have any idea how we will cope if we get a case in our home. I have been asking what the plan for that is, for over 18 months now. It has only just turned up in the staffroom but I literally haven't had a chance to read it yet. Right now, I would like nothing better than for OCA to build a village in Timaru. I would go work for them in a heartbeat.

what you say is relevant to all in the industry.

In the UK the biggest issues have been staff leaving who dont want vax
staff then leaving from being overworked due to staff shortages.
staff shortages due to not being able to attract staff in the first place due to higher wages in other sectors


So when covid becomes a bigger issue in NZ the example of the UK will be similar in NZ and what you have mentioned is very relevant.

I should add the key to finding the best investment in the sector going forward might very well be which company manages these issues the best

[850man]

Back to thinking about how OCA makes money, it's all about selling and reselling units as opposed to the care side of things. In covid times a village is a far safer place to be so if anything sales should see a boost and therefore the bottom line.

Or am I just clutching at a few positive straws in an otherwise depressing situation?

[BlackPeter]

Back to thinking about how OCA makes money, it's all about selling and reselling units as opposed to the care side of things. In covid times a village is a far safer place to be so if anything sales should see a boost and therefore the bottom line.

Or am I just clutching at a few positive straws in an otherwise depressing situation?

I think you make a lot of sense ... however you need to look at it as well from bull's perspective.

While in my view even an episode with Covid and / or vaccination related staffing issues (as long a s they don't get chronic) would make any impact of the long term profitability of a well managed retirement home ... traders obviously love to create fear in order to buy bargains.

Last year OCA was on special for something like 40 or 45 cents ... bull might hope for another opportunity like that to pick up some more of them (actually - I wouldn't mind either despite being already overweight in them), and this only works if everybody is nervous.

OK - maybe I should change my tune more towards bull...ish ...

[Panda-NZ-]

Our Nurse Manager refuses to get vaccinated so she is gone in a couple of weeks. Two care staff are following suit. Possibly one housekeeper. The rest of us are feeling anxious and stressed as we have not yet received any kind of direction from upper management in terms of what happens when they all walk out the door. I am on my three days off but all I can think about is work. This is all uncharted territory.


Social media should have their own mandate if they want to operate in nz.

"This site is not a good source of factual information".

[justakiwi]

I shared MY personal experience as someone working on the ground floor. The situation I described is factual.

So what exactly, are you trying to say?


Social media should have their own mandate if they want to operate in nz.

"This site is not a good source of factual information".

[Panda-NZ-]

Sigh... I meant the "anti-vaccine" leavers must be doing so because they read something on social media.

[justakiwi]

OK. Alg. Glad I misinterpreted ;)


Sigh... I meant the "anti-vaccine" leavers must be doing so because they read something on social media.

[couta1]

Sigh... I meant the "anti-vaccine" leavers must be doing so because they read something on social media. Lol you give people little credit, only the very odd mindless fool would give up a job they enjoy because of reading something on a fickle/trash social media site.

[dobby41]

Lol you give people little credit, only the very odd mindless fool would give up a job they enjoy because of reading something on a fickle/trash social media site.

People do!
Anti-vaxxers will.
People decide not to get vaccinated for a lot of mindless reasons.

[justakiwi]

Yep. Including, "God told me not to get it."


People do!
Anti-vaxxers will.
People decide not to get vaccinated for a lot of mindless reasons.

[couta1]

People do!
Anti-vaxxers will.
People decide not to get vaccinated for a lot of mindless reasons. I don't know any like that personally excepting some whose initial sound reasons for not getting the vax went a bit wild with the whole world depopulation and 5g nonsense (Or maybe they are just ahead of the game with their 5g thoughts, who knows?)

[thegreatestben]

Have come across a few people who I know and thought reasonably highly of (ie. not complete halfwits) to recently out themselves as "unsure" about the vaccine. It takes you by surprise!

[Ggcc]

Sounds just like a case of polarized thinking to me, I know plenty that are giving up their jobs in this industry and they won't be changing their minds.

Guess they will become unemployable eventually. If they can afford it good on them. They must also enjoy travelling around nz in a car. Great for them.

[dobby41]

I don't know any like that personally excepting some whose initial sound reasons for not getting the vax went a bit wild with the whole world depopulation and 5g nonsense (Or maybe they are just ahead of the game with their 5g thoughts, who knows?)

I don't know anyone who isn't (or hasn't) got vaxxed.

As for 5G - as a technologist, I can say that 'we' know they aren't ahead of the game.

[artemis]

Guess they will become unemployable eventually. If they can afford it good on them. They must also enjoy travelling around nz in a car. Great for them.

Yes there will be some unemployable, probably sooner rather than later. But 'eventually' the current pandemic will fade away globally, and c19 vax status will not be top of anyone's mind. Well it will be of interest to academics for decades.

[bull....]

Back to thinking about how OCA makes money, it's all about selling and reselling units as opposed to the care side of things. In covid times a village is a far safer place to be so if anything sales should see a boost and therefore the bottom line.

Or am I just clutching at a few positive straws in an otherwise depressing situation?

need too break up these retirement beasts into care analysis and property analysis to completely understand all the in's and outs. what your referring too the property side has its own headwinds as well next year.

anyway i see a second staff member at the henderson outfit has now tested positive

[Beagle]

One theory for the share price weakness that might hold some water is the capital raise by Arvida which @ $330m is pretty sizeable. The effect of that on existing participants in the industry is something I have often observed with capital raises in the REIT property sector. If people need to sell something to participate in the Arvida rights issue possibly it makes more sense to sell something outside of this sector rather than sell into a depressed OCA share price.

Final payment for the second issue completing Arvida's capital raise is due not later than 8 November so perhaps with that behind us as we head towards the latter part of November and the pending half year result announcement on the 29th we might see a modest recovery.

On the matters of insiders share parcel movements while we've all noticed Greg Tomlinson's recent multi million dollar acquisition at $1.41 any further updates on Earl Gasparich and Mark Stockdon's sell down's have been conspicuous by their absence. Perhaps they're not interested in selling into a depressed share price and if they aren't maybe others are wise to observe that ?

Disc: I participated in Arvida's placement and paid for my share of their upcoming rights issue today and did not sell any OCA shares to fund that.

Bull - Nobody is going to thank you for a running commentary on case numbers in some non OCA village. Its irrelevant and it looks like a blatant attempt to manipulate the OCA share price down so you might get some negative rep if you bring it up again.

[Crypto Crude]

Evergrande has debt of 300 billion and a market cap of 32 billion... so nearly 10 times more debt to market cap...
It's just the times we live in ... extradionary debt... public sector, private sector... you name it we are at all time high debts everywhere and it's a bubble about to burst...

Something must be going horrifically wrong with Oceania... these are cash cow businesses that squeeze as much money out of elderly people for as little care as possible (generally speaking)...

:cool:cc

[justakiwi]

Deleted........



Something must be going horrifically wrong with Oceania... these are cash cow businesses that squeeze as much money out of elderly people for as little care as possible (generally speaking)...

:cool:cc

[Shareguy]

I think Beagle is correct. Share price weakness a result of retirement rebalancing due to Arvida CR. Still a great company with solid future prospects in my opinion.

[dompf]

I think Beagle is correct. Share price weakness a result of retirement rebalancing due to Arvida CR. Still a great company with solid future prospects in my opinion.

it looks like sellers are taking a break

[Mrbuyit]

I think Beagle is correct. Share price weakness a result of retirement rebalancing due to Arvida CR. Still a great company with solid future prospects in my opinion.

This is an interesting thought, depending on portfolio mix.. I have both ARV and OCA and applied for the rights issue in ARV, using cash reserves. I didn't think OCA was frothy enough at current levels to look to switch cash from OCA to ARV.
If OCA was in the high 1.50 range I probably would have thought longer and harder about it.

The other discussion (from a few pages back) was the prospect of ~$3 for OCA in 10 years time, which is at guess around 8% compounding return? plus a couple of percent in dividends or DRP..
Is this enough, given likley inflationary pressure and will we be still talking about the beached whale in years to come.

[peat]

This is an interesting thought, depending on portfolio mix.. I have both ARV and OCA and applied for the rights issue in ARV, using cash reserves. I didn't think OCA was frothy enough at current levels to look to switch cash from OCA to ARV.
If OCA was in the high 1.50 range I probably would have thought longer and harder about it.


But some of the real whales (funds ) might have much stricter portfolio constraints.

[bull....]

Evergrande has debt of 300 billion and a market cap of 32 billion... so nearly 10 times more debt to market cap...
It's just the times we live in ... extradionary debt... public sector, private sector... you name it we are at all time high debts everywhere and it's a bubble about to burst...

Something must be going horrifically wrong with Oceania... these are cash cow businesses that squeeze as much money out of elderly people for as little care as possible (generally speaking)...

:cool:cc

lol cant quite understand why you have not been torched for making such a suggestion

[Beagle]

Probably because some posts are so idiotic they're not worth responding too.

[bull....]

actually i think crypto makes a good point

[Beagle]

Why am I not surprised by that lol

[bull....]

One theory for the share price weakness that might hold some water is the capital raise by Arvida which @ $330m is pretty sizeable. The effect of that on existing participants in the industry is something I have often observed with capital raises in the REIT property sector. If people need to sell something to participate in the Arvida rights issue possibly it makes more sense to sell something outside of this sector rather than sell into a depressed OCA share price.

Final payment for the second issue completing Arvida's capital raise is due not later than 8 November so perhaps with that behind us as we head towards the latter part of November and the pending half year result announcement on the 29th we might see a modest recovery.

On the matters of insiders share parcel movements while we've all noticed Greg Tomlinson's recent multi million dollar acquisition at $1.41 any further updates on Earl Gasparich and Mark Stockdon's sell down's have been conspicuous by their absence. Perhaps they're not interested in selling into a depressed share price and if they aren't maybe others are wise to observe that ?

Disc: I participated in Arvida's placement and paid for my share of their upcoming rights issue today and did not sell any OCA shares to fund that.

Bull - Nobody is going to thank you for a running commentary on case numbers in some non OCA village. Its irrelevant and it looks like a blatant attempt to manipulate the OCA share price down so you might get some negative rep if you bring it up again.

please dont give me a bad rep lol but seriously your displaying an uninformed view. if you track the covid cases from mid sept in total and compare with stock prices of retirement stocks they are tracking cases to a degree oca is one of the most correlated sum the least.

[justakiwi]

He was. But I deleted it to save my sanity :angry:


lol cant quite understand why you have not been torched for making such a suggestion

[Rawz]

please dont give me a bad rep lol but seriously your displaying an uninformed view. if you track the covid cases from mid sept in total and compare with stock prices of retirement stocks they are tracking cases to a degree oca is one of the most correlated sum the least.

That’s interesting. Maybe bull is onto something?

How have retirement stocks feared internationally vs living with covid? Anyone know?

[JohnnyTheHorse]

please dont give me a bad rep lol but seriously your displaying an uninformed view. if you track the covid cases from mid sept in total and compare with stock prices of retirement stocks they are tracking cases to a degree oca is one of the most correlated sum the least.

Could be more to do with the rise in swaps?

[bull....]

Could be more to do with the rise in swaps?

your onto it

[dobby41]

actually i think crypto makes a good point

Could you expand on what good point he makes?

[bull....]

Could you expand on what good point he makes?

probably my personal experience as a care custodian to someone who was in bupa. after they passed i was told to get there possessions out within 2 days ( not withstanding i lived in a different town ) as they needed the room for someone else. on the way out of this facility i was handed a bill for the ambulance that took them to hospital. they were not a very caring outfit i can honestly say.

[justakiwi]

Please do not judge the whole sector based on this experience. Yes, there is almost always someone waiting to come into a newly vacated room. That is the sad reality. Families are usually the ones who come and pack up the room and they often actually want to do that, quite quickly. Most facilities are very caring and empathetic and do not put pressure on families. Don't forget, the person who has died is part of OUR family too. Staff are also grieving whenever someone dies. Re the ambulance, not sure how other facilities operate, but we pay for ambulance transfers, not the resident. Although , that could depend on whether or not the resident concerned was having their care paid via government subsidy. Not sure if that would be the case if someone is paying for their own care (doesn't qualify for subsidy). I will have to find out. Either way, most facilities and most staff, are caring and kind and genuinely concerned for the people they care for. Which is why Crypto Crude's post was more than a little offensive.


probably my personal experience as a care giver to someone who was in bupa. after they passed i was told to get there possessions out within 2 days ( not withstanding i lived in a different town ) as they needed the room for someone else. on the way out of this facility i was handed a bill for the ambulance that took them to hospital. they were not a very caring outfit i can honestly say.

[dobby41]

probably my personal experience as a care custodian to someone who was in bupa. after they passed i was told to get there possessions out within 2 days ( not withstanding i lived in a different town ) as they needed the room for someone else. on the way out of this facility i was handed a bill for the ambulance that took them to hospital. they were not a very caring outfit i can honestly say.

I'm not sure that is what Crudie meant when he wrote
these are cash cow businesses that squeeze as much money out of elderly people for as little care as possible (generally speaking)...
I suspect he was meaning little care while they were there rather than gone.

[bull....]

I'm not sure that is what Crudie meant when he wrote
these are cash cow businesses that squeeze as much money out of elderly people for as little care as possible (generally speaking)...
I suspect he was meaning little care while they were there rather than gone.

i was suggesting that as well

[Crypto Crude]

Generally speaking this is of my experience of grandparents in rest homes, reading, seeing, hearing about on social media...
My Nana could not eat the resthome food it was torture for her... no flavour or seasoning... I seen the food with my own eyes it was horrible...
Some of these tenures are contracts for life... so when morale and quality of life goes down then ->

These are businesses aswell remember... and whats the most important goal of any business -> maximize profits...

You might not want to hear it but this is the truth...
:cool:cc

[couta1]

probably my personal experience as a care custodian to someone who was in bupa. after they passed i was told to get there possessions out within 2 days ( not withstanding i lived in a different town ) as they needed the room for someone else. on the way out of this facility i was handed a bill for the ambulance that took them to hospital. they were not a very caring outfit i can honestly say. Not surprised, don't get me started on Bupa.

[dobby41]

Generally speaking this is of my experience of grandparents in rest homes, reading, seeing, hearing about on social media...
My Nana could not eat the resthome food it was torture for her... no flavour or seasoning... I seen the food with my own eyes it was horrible...
Some of these tenures are contracts for life... so when morale and quality of life goes down then ->

These are businesses aswell remember... and whats the most important goal of any business -> maximize profits...


The care my father got was second to none.
The food was great.
I don't doubt that there are some bad rest homes but I doubt that it is a rule across the board.

Businesses can care for their customers also - maximise profits while providing what the customer pays for.

[BlackPeter]

lol cant quite understand why you have not been torched for making such a suggestion

I guess most people have the troll on ignore ... but hey, thanks for giving him oxygen.

[BlackPeter]

Generally speaking this is of my experience of grandparents in rest homes, reading, seeing, hearing about on social media...
My Nana could not eat the resthome food it was torture for her... no flavour or seasoning... I seen the food with my own eyes it was horrible...
Some of these tenures are contracts for life... so when morale and quality of life goes down then ->

These are businesses aswell remember... and whats the most important goal of any business -> maximize profits...

You might not want to hear it but this is the truth...
:cool:cc

I guess it tells us a lot about you that you allowed your nana to stay in a rest home where she was not well cared for and got cr**py food. You rightly should feel bad about yourself.

Only question I would have - what exactly has this to do with OCA?

[peat]

I guess it tells us a lot about you that you allowed your nana to stay in a rest home where she was not well cared for and got cr**py food. You rightly should feel bad about yourself.



Could you be anymore horrible?
You dont know the situation and here you go leaping in accusing people of horrible deeds. What a nasty thing to do.
You really need to shut up if you havent got anything nice to say.

[justakiwi]

Take the generalised bashing of aged care to a new thread please. It does not apply to OCA, and I for one, do not want or need to hear it.

[Crypto Crude]

Blackpeter,
Your a nasty piece of work ...
That's a mega thumbs down from me...
:t_down:cc

[Old mate]

Jeepers everybody calm down. Can't we all be respectful to each other everyone has an opinion. Some are probably different to yours. Been so negative and aggressive here lately. Be nice to be a bit more supportive of each other in current times. Life's not that bad;)

[couta1]

Could you be anymore horrible?
You dont know the situation and here you go leaping in accusing people of horrible deeds. What a nasty thing to do.
You really need to shut up if you havent got anything nice to say. I'm on his ignore list cause I stood up to his bully- boy tactics, what a blessing.

[bull....]

13168
I guess most people have the troll on ignore ... but hey, thanks for giving him oxygen.

who's the troll

[peat]

who's the troll

BP lives directly under the bridge imo.

[Crypto Crude]

Read this... its dated Feb but clearly shows the retirement villages are not playing fair they scalp and cream the market, under pay employees.. so it's super surprising as Oceania have huge debt...

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/retirement-villages

This is exactly what I'm talking about...
A crazy 30% fee on a property when you exit... they make it incredibly hard for you to move out without taking massive financial hit...
As I said... its a business model set to maximize profits for shareholders......


:cool:cc

[Greekwatchdog]

Please this stuff to the generic Retirement Village Thread. Alternatively go complain to the Govt. For goodness sakes. Why do you lot pick on OCA thread?

[couta1]

Please this stuff to the generic Retirement Village Thread. Alternatively go complain to the Govt. For goodness sakes. Why do you lot pick on OCA thread? Until we can get operation Jonah to sort this whale out then the vacuum will get filled with whatever.

[Greekwatchdog]

Until we can get operation Jonah to sort this whale out then the vacuum will get filled with whatever.

Best they re float ASAP. The Krill is starting to leak from its arse

[dobby41]

Read this... its dated Feb but clearly shows the retirement villages are not playing fair they scalp and cream the market, under pay employees.. so it's super surprising as Oceania have huge debt...

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/retirement-villages

This is exactly what I'm talking about...
A crazy 30% fee on a property when you exit... they make it incredibly hard for you to move out without taking massive financial hit...
As I said... its a business model set to maximize profits for shareholders......


That has nothing to do with the CARE they receive - which was the thrust of your comment.
That is the contract which people knowingly sign on entry.

[justakiwi]

OK, I've had enough. I have created a private group for anyone who, like me, is frustrated with the BS that has taken over this thread. It is a group for on topic discussion of OCA, without any of these ridiculous, unrelated distractions.

If you would like to join, please PM me.

[winner69]

Until we can get operation Jonah to sort this whale out then the vacuum will get filled with whatever.

Seems there’s a pod of four whales beached

[Bjauck]

Read this... its dated Feb but clearly shows the retirement villages are not playing fair they scalp and cream the market, under pay employees.. so it's super surprising as Oceania have huge debt...

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/retirement-villages

This is exactly what I'm talking about...
A crazy 30% fee on a property when you exit... they make it incredibly hard for you to move out without taking massive financial hit...
As I said... its a business model set to maximize profits for shareholders......


:cool:cc Isn't one of the cornerstones of capitalism to seek ways to maximise the return to the owner of risk equity? It helps an economy to become increasingly efficient. The people who move into villages are not forced to move in. They have had options and must have independent advice. What is the average length of stay in an ORA unit? About 7 years? If it is that, then the fee is about 4.3% pa onnaverage for secure occupation.

I assume the ability to make profits encourages more ORA units to be built. Perhaps a successful manner for providing new residential accommodation in NZ, which has a shortage of residential accommodation...

Also it gives many people an option for retirement, which enables them to tap into the past decades of capital appreciation of what for many (most people?) is their largest asset.

[Crypto Crude]

OK, I've had enough. I have created a private group for anyone who, like me, is frustrated with the BS that has taken over this thread. It is a group for on topic discussion of OCA, without any of these ridiculous, unrelated distractions.

If you would like to join, please PM me.

Pm sent... I'm keen
.:cool:cc

[Beagle]

Goodbye...

[BlackPeter]

Could you be anymore horrible?
You dont know the situation and here you go leaping in accusing people of horrible deeds. What a nasty thing to do.
You really need to shut up if you havent got anything nice to say.

The irony ...

Open your mind and the other eye :p

[alokdhir]

Jeepers everybody calm down. Can't we all be respectful to each other everyone has an opinion. Some are probably different to yours. Been so negative and aggressive here lately. Be nice to be a bit more supportive of each other in current times. Life's not that bad;)

Every thread is same ....Visit Coronavirus ...all are ready to insult u at slightest disagreement ....all replies are mostly condescending ...what a shame ...

True nature of people come out when they think they are anonymous ....

Everyone is on a EGO trip not trying to spread wisdom but to feel better by insulting others ...

[bull....]

yep

seems to be a lot of people on this site who have bad attitudes towards anyone who does not subscribe to there way of thinking.
critical analysis of companies is frowned on if it doesnt conform to the group chant

[dobby41]

yep

seems to be a lot of people on this site who have bad attitudes towards anyone who does not subscribe to there way of thinking.
critical analysis of companies is frowned on if it doesnt conform to the group chant

I can understand and tolerate it on the more general threads of politics and covid but it should stay away from the company threads.

[BlackPeter]

yep

seems to be a lot of people on this site who have bad attitudes towards anyone who does not subscribe to there way of thinking.
critical analysis of companies is frowned on if it doesnt conform to the group chant

Well, yes -

Groupthink is not unusual in any forum, and there clearly are people who get shot at just for not sharing the view of the cheerleaders in respective threads.

On the other hand - not everybody making negative remarks is providing critical analysis. I see it less often that people who provide a real analysis (i.e. providing as well sensible reasons for their view) get shut down. More often it is just a negative view unsupported by facts clashing with a positive view unsupported by facts ... and sure - this only can end in a shouting match, can't it?

Maybe we should all try to provide more supporting facts when we state controversial opinions ... this site certainly would gain from it.

[t.rexjr]

I assume the ability to make profits encourages more ORA units to be built. Perhaps a successful manner for providing new residential accommodation in NZ, which has a shortage of residential accommodation...

I've often pondered whether removing a large supply/demand of small low cost units from the open market is a contributor to the issue... A very small % of homes built in the general population are low cost and those within villages are at a premium

[porkandpuha]

and there clearly are people who get shot at just for not sharing the view of the cheerleaders in respective threads.



There is a difference between not sharing the view of the cheerleaders, and having a trashy low blow pot shot at Cryptos care for their nan. Once you learn the difference, you may understand why everyone was calling out your douche comment.

btw, you can down rep me all you want. I will send you a weekly reminder to do it if you like. A small green colourful trinket obviously has very different value to you than it does for me.

[allfromacell]

Record low unemployment, more inflation on the way. OCA sure did get good timing on that bond issue.

https://www.interest.co.nz/business/113023/latest-labour-market-figures-blow-all-economists-expectations-out-water-once-again

[Beagle]

Record low unemployment, more inflation on the way. OCA sure did get good timing on that bond issue.

https://www.interest.co.nz/business/113023/latest-labour-market-figures-blow-all-economists-expectations-out-water-once-again

Yes the timing and 7 year term of that $100m bond issue last October at just 2.3% locked in for so long was a superb deal for OCA shareholders. Not so good for those who participated with the yield on the secondary market this morning hitting 3.8%, (resulting in an 8% loss of the face value of the investment) as secondary market investors demand a yield more appropriate to where long dated Govt bonds are currently trading.

Listening in to the PIE funds CEO this morning October saw the worst performance in the bond market since 1994 with short dated bonds rising nearly 100 basis point sin a single month !

Anyone who ever suggests you can't lose money in bonds is factually incorrect. A good example above. Those investors who committed to OCA 7 year bonds at just 2.3% (returning just on 1.5% after tax for investors on a 33% tax rate), are losing money hand over fist with inflation at 4.9% over the last year resulting in a net loss in real inflation adjusted terms of 4.9 - 1.5 = 3.4% ! Someone who invested $100,000 has in real terms lost $3,400 in real inflation adjusted spending power in the last year and faces many more years of their interest payments after tax being potentially well below the inflation rate. Worse, if they want to rectify their mistake they will suffer a capital loss of another 8% + brokerage to exit.

I called it at the time, that bond issue was a fantastic deal for OCA shareholders !

[couta1]

Perhaps this Whale doesn't give a toss about bond dynamics, its currently dug itself into a large canyon on a lonely beach.

[alokdhir]

Perhaps this Whale doesn't give a toss about bond dynamics, its currently dug itself into a large canyon on a lonely beach.

Seems like selling FPH @ 30 to buy OCA @ 1.41 was not very good idea at the moment ...but can change if someone can take this whale to deep seas ...lol

[Beau]

Seems like selling FPH @ 30 to buy OCA @ 1.41 was not very good idea at the moment ...but can change if someone can take this whale to deep seas ...lol

Yes thought I was on a good thing at 1.47 then 1.42 could go at 1.37 in blocks of 5.

[alokdhir]

Yes thought I was on a good thing at 1.47 then 1.42 could go at 1.37 in blocks of 5.


I started from 1.41 and then every 2 cents down ...so waiting for 1.36 now ...:p

[dompf]

I started from 1.41 and then every 2 cents down ...so waiting for 1.36 now ...:p

Them swedes may have another steal if we keep heading south. Maybe the vikings this time

[bull....]

1.30 was last support. last time

[alokdhir]

1.30 was last support. last time

Most likely will make higher bottom this time so max 133-135 ...IMHO

[couta1]

Most likely will make higher bottom this time so max 133-135 ...IMHO Yep its results run up will start next week I reckon.

[Beagle]

Becoming a marine mammal medic is clearly a very popular thing. Courses sold out until late February 2022 ! https://www.projectjonah.org.nz/Get+Involved/Become+a+Marine+Mammal+Medic.html

[couta1]

Becoming a marine mammal medic is clearly a very popular thing. Courses sold out until late February 2022 ! https://www.projectjonah.org.nz/Get+Involved/Become+a+Marine+Mammal+Medic.html Says that after completion of the course you will be trained to assist in the rescue of stranded whales, we need an urgent entry NOW. Lol

[Beagle]

Says that after completion of the course you will be trained to assist in the rescue of stranded whales, we need an urgent entry NOW. Lol

You read my mind lol

Probably the first thing they teach you on that course is if you see anyone coming with explosives, stand well clear :eek2:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-12/wa-leads-way-using-explosives-to-euthanase-sick-beached-whales/7081946

Note that this is supposed to be the most humane way to put them out of their misery !

The next high tide on 29 November better hurry up.

[winner69]

Says that after completion of the course you will be trained to assist in the rescue of stranded whales, we need an urgent entry NOW. Lol

Part of training is understanding cultural issues and which Iwi to contact

[couta1]

You read my mind lol

Probably the first thing they teach you on that course is if you see anyone coming with explosives, stand well clear :eek2:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-12/wa-leads-way-using-explosives-to-euthanase-sick-beached-whales/7081946 Guy Fawkes on friday and this whale needs a whole heap of skyrockets up its rear end.

[couta1]

Part of training is understanding cultural issues and which Iwi to contact Good news, we should be about to obtain an extra 120 million of special funding then to help get this baby back out to sea.

[alokdhir]

1.35 has arrived ....Whale need bigger help .... Who will help ....hopefully OCA gurus are watching silently in pain ...:confused:

[couta1]

1.35 has arrived ....Whale need bigger help .... Who will help ....hopefully OCA gurus are watching silently in pain ...:confused: We are off watching Groundhog day again, that movie never seems to age.

[850man]

1.35 has arrived ....Whale need bigger help .... Who will help ....hopefully OCA gurus are watching silently in pain ...:confused:

NTA + 13% that's getting down there alright!

[Rawz]

I thought NTA close to $1.35 now anyway?

[Baa_Baa]

NTA + 13% that's getting down there alright!

$1.20 currently (https://www.nzx.com/instruments/OCA)

[winner69]

I thought NTA close to $1.35 now anyway?

But the surging interest rates (much faster than anticipated) could see some significant downward revaluations on the horizon .....and they might be losing heaps on running villages and looking after people

[Sideshow Bob]

I thought NTA close to $1.35 now anyway?

Lets liquidate the whole thing and have a firesale!! :t_up:

[winner69]

$1.20 currently (https://www.nzx.com/instruments/OCA)

That's a number from March ..... out of date now

[Beagle]

Lets get some of that Iwi funding and make a takeover offer at $2 !!

[Panda-NZ-]

Lets get some of that Iwi funding and make a takeover offer at $2 !!

No one wants this relative dud stock, Macquarie bank only too keen to offload.

[bull....]

No one wants this relative dud stock, Macquarie bank only too keen to offload

been pumped to hell on this site to the retail folks

[Beagle]

No one wants this relative dud stock, Macquarie bank only too keen to offload.

Third of a billion being sucked out of the "pool" of investors funds in this sector by Arvida was always going to end with some whales temporarily beached.

Probably now trading under current net asset value. Might "do a Couta" if it goes down to $1.30.

[dobby41]

Probably the first thing they teach you on that course is if you see anyone coming with explosives, stand well clear :eek2:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-12/wa-leads-way-using-explosives-to-euthanase-sick-beached-whales/7081946


Exploding whales - try this. The action starts 2 minutes in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34

[Perky]

I had a top up buy hit at 1.35 today.
To get 8000 shares…I got 49 trade notifications from Asb. Of these 39 where for trades under 9 shares.
I think the whale was feeding on krill today

[couta1]

been pumped to hell on this site to the retail folks And its a good long term hold for retail folks, im surprised your not loading up a few at these bargains prices in anticipation of a run into the result as a trade, well you probably are if truth be known, should run to $1.48ish i reckon.

[winner69]

Third of a billion being sucked out of the "pool" of investors funds in this sector by Arvida was always going to end with some whales temporarily beached.

Probably now trading under current net asset value. Might "do a Couta" if it goes down to $1.30.

Since the day before ARV announced their cap raise OCA, SUM and RYM are all down about 5% - three beached whales

These three market cap down about $500m ....hmmm ......Allowing for the new shares ARV market cap only down slightly


ARV bleeding the sector or something more sinister

[Beagle]

I think the whole market is in a funk driven mainly over concerns of higher interest rates and inflation.

[winner69]

I think the whole market is in a funk driven mainly over concerns of higher interest rates and inflation.

Probably is the cause

Could get worse if gurus from Westpac are anywhere right ….. expecting OCR to peak of 3% by mid-2023

Mind we’ll over 2% apparently already priced into bonds.

[Beagle]

Probably is the cause

Could get worse if gurus from Westpac are anywhere right ….. expecting OCR to peak of 3% by mid-2023

Mind we’ll over 2% apparently already priced into bonds.

If its the same economist "guru's" that predicted the real estate market to crash last year we should be buying lol

[winner69]

If its the same economist "guru's" that predicted the real estate market to crash last year we should be buying lol

About as good as that guru analyst who keeps saying OCA shares are worth $1.91 lol

[Beagle]

https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/OCEANIA-HEALTHCARE-LIMITE-103506268/consensus/ BUY with average target price $1.71 !
The best analyst is actually at $1.90 not $1.91 Winner but what's a cent between friends :)

Must be getting close to the right time to go hard or go home (AKA doing a Couta1).

[dln]

Probably the first thing they teach you on that course is if you see anyone coming with explosives, stand well clear :eek2:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-12/wa-leads-way-using-explosives-to-euthanase-sick-beached-whales/7081946

50 years since the yanks tried it (with typical enthusiasm).
https://youtu.be/VVTN5iCXrkk

[Poolboy]

Not bragging. Just wanted to thank you guys. On May 2020 I sold a house and according to you guys OCA seemed like a good pick, so I dumped the house lot of money in at 76 cents. So I'm happy. All I want now is a bit of long awaited movement on my AIA shares. They've been OK, but not magic like OCA.

[Teatree]

Excellent video you'd never get away with that here tho

[bull....]

1.34 :scared: the titanic comes to mind. ive got my buy on at a dollar save the day it will

[Greekwatchdog]

This is no longer a beached whale. Its sinking. With such a huge increase in house prices over the last 18 months how can this go from $1.30 end 2019 to todays price of $1.34? Bewildered. Almost seems like those Drunk Monkeys were right.

[alokdhir]

1.34 and seems like capitulation round the corner ...Me is supporting it on every cent down ...as should not change your strategy in panic ...still its a great buy and hold ...FORBAR 1.90 seems too far away ....Its the Covid carnage and expected difficulties associated with it ...But then RBNZ will start supporting the sentiment if it tanks too much ...Govt and RBNZ just cant let go of the sentiment which has distinctly turned sour with Covid Mess and troubles associated in managing it

Uncooperative and restive people are adding to the difficulty degrees of Govt and managements

[Bjauck]

Deleted....off topic.

[bottomfeeder]

Oh well if this keeps up, no tax for me this year. But those sellers are a bit short sighted I believe. Get out of cash at any cost. Asset inflation has gone off the chart. A two bedroom attached unit around the corner at the mount, sold for 1.4 Mill. Several years ago I wouldn't have paid $400k. Many may say that's property booming. I say that's cash becoming worthless.

I think it's a world economy that no one knows where things are going to end up. Crypto which really is nothing is booming in value. Again everyone is getting out of cash. Fiat currencies are in the biggest bubble that has ever gripped the world. Mind you it did happen in several economies such as Zimbabwe. It seems like its a spinning wheel, round and round it goes, where it stops nobody knows.

But you have to admit and not lose sight of the fact that boomers are coming up and will keep the retirement villages full. Even if the government starts to interfere in the financial model of villages, there are multiple other models they can follow.

[couta1]

See what happens after tomorrow once any money needed for the ARV placement is taken out of the equation although I think retail punters fear is a big factor currently.

[Beagle]

This is no longer a beached whale. Its sinking. With such a huge increase in house prices over the last 18 months how can this go from $1.30 end 2019 to todays price of $1.34? Bewildered. Almost seems like those Drunk Monkeys were right.

Was looking at that the other day. OCA hit $1.36 in December 2019 nearly two years ago. House price inflation since then and two years further through their business transformation program, (now past the point of inflection), and its now worth less...go figure ?

For what its worth, today is the last day to sell anything (T +2 = settlement Monday), if investors need to raise funds for the Arvida rights issue which is also due for settlement no later than Monday 8th.

[bottomfeeder]

Was looking at that the other day. OCA hit $1.36 in December 2019 nearly two years ago. House price inflation since then and two years further through their business transformation program, (now past the point of inflection), and its now worth less...go figure ?

For what its worth, today is the last day to sell anything (T +2 = settlement Monday), if investors need to raise funds for the Arvida rights issue which is also due for settlement no later than Monday 8th.

Didn't think ARV was such a brilliant price.

[Beau]

Didn't think ARV was such a brilliant price.

Does make one wonder why you would sell so low to buy the other:confused:

[Bjauck]

Was looking at that the other day. OCA hit $1.36 in December 2019 nearly two years ago. House price inflation since then and two years further through their business transformation program, (now past the point of inflection), and its now worth less...go figure ?

For what its worth, today is the last day to sell anything (T +2 = settlement Monday), if investors need to raise funds for the Arvida rights issue which is also due for settlement no later than Monday 8th. I was thinking that if an investor needs to raise funds, yet does not want to increase exposure to the sector, then the most likely share to sell would be OCA. OCA and ARV seem often to be considered similar companies, just as SUM and RYM are considered in the same sub-set.

[couta1]

Does make one wonder why you would sell so low to buy the other:confused: Just like the market people don't always make sense and Fear overrides logic and common sense.

[jimdog31]

Just like the market people don't always make sense and Fear overrides logic and common sense.

Surely the announcement of how they are deploying their latest bond will turn this around!